My maxed out suspension lift :)

[Ldub]

Ldub - I see what you're saying - had to do a little more visualizing there. You're right. I'm wrong. As long as the torsion bar is not pre-loaded to the point where the suspension is topped out, it doesn't matter if the lift is achieved by reindexing or by cranking the torsion bar - when ride height is increased, suspension travel from "baseline" to bump stop is increased - therefore max torque the torsion bar can experience is increased the same amount no matter which method you use. If you crank past the point you're topped out you would increase the max torque seen by the torsion bar, however, as each ft-lb of preload at the top of travel is a ft-lb added at the bottom of travel. But I doubt if anybody would keep cranking after the VX stops going up. There's probably not that much adjustment range is there? You'd have to re-index to do that! OK I gotta get back to my crack pipe now. Thanks for the mental excercise!

Tom - Yeah there's no problem with safety - I wasn't saying that. It's just that the VX won't handle as well if you crank so much preload in that you're riding way higher in the stroke than the designer intended. At three inches higher than normal ride height you're probably not that far from being topped out. When off-road racing on two wheels you want race sag (that would be the equivalent of VX ride height with you and your gear in it) to be set so that you're about 1/3 down into the stroke and I imagine it's a similar setup for best suspension compliance when you're in the four wheel realm too. It's not good for handling/traction if you're topping out all the time. But then I guess the aim here isn't good high speed off-road handling anyway is it? Nobody's running in a rally or a SCORE desert race or anything - they just want more ground clearance to prevent getting hung up and keep from ripping stuff off the bottom of their VX as they crawl over rocks!

That's mighty gracious of you to say, & truth be told, I was starting to think that I might have been looking at from the wrong end of the pipe...
But no matter how I tried to get my head wrapped around how reindexing would change the force needed, I couldn't do it.
IMO, a good discussion isn't about who's right or wrong, it's about getting to what's really going on, & I think we might be there...
Of course, there is still room for further views that might not be exactly the same.
I was kinda hoping that one of our members with a broader understanding of mechanical engineering than I have, would step in & splain it better.
Here's to you, for being a good sport & playing nice...

[Ldub]

That actually makes sense, but I could have sworn I read that you are putting increased tension(torsion) on the bars to acheive the lifting. In essence, winding up a spring to have it apply pressure(downwards in this case) to gain clearance. Maybe my info was bad. So it's just suspension geometry breaking bars and not indexing? Somethings missing there.

If I'm understanding your point properly, you are right about lifting beyond stock ride height increasing the torsional load required to maintain the increase in height.
But on the other point you are making, I have never heard of anyone having recurring problems with torsion bar breakage.
The H-D ones that are available from Indy 4X would most likely require fewer cranks to achieve a higher than normal ride height, but IMO, that would be due to their larger than stock H-D construction, giving them more torsional force, requiring less crankage to achieve the same amount of lift.

[ZEUS]

I was kinda hoping that one of our members with a broader understanding of mechanical engineering than I have, would step in & splain it better.

And I did...

[tom4bren]

And I did...

I have no response to that.

[LittleBeast]

The H-D ones that are available from Indy 4X would most likely require fewer cranks to achieve a higher than normal ride height, but IMO, that would be due to their larger than stock H-D construction, giving them more torsional force, requiring less crankage to achieve the same amount of lift.

After talking to the guys over at Independent4x for about half an hour the other day, he explained to me that the HD Torsion bars are probably the #1 best way to increase your on road handling in the VX. The way he explained it to me, was that basically when you lift the rear end with harder and longer springs, to do the same thing to the front you would need HD torsion bars. They act like stiffer "springs" in the front, and can be used to compensate for softer shocks than needed on the front. One of the guys there said he was about to sell his trooper and then the owner of Indepedent4x convinced him to try to HD torsion bars first, after he did that he said it was like a new car and performed better than ever, so he kept it indefinitely after that one mod.....

Made me really want to do this upgrade:
https://id211.chi.us.securedata.net/...products_id=86

[ZEUS]

Does anyone know if the VX torsion bars have a different spring rate than a Trooper? To my understanding the VX has thicker sway bars than a Trooper so just curious...

[Ldub]

And I did...

BAD oversight on my part, most humble apology to you Sir.....

[Ldub]

they just want more ground clearance to prevent getting hung up and keep from ripping stuff off the bottom of their VX as they crawl over rocks!

Well yah...that & lookin' cool az H3II with our "go big or go home" tires, & offset from h3II...

[SilverBullet75]

So, in reading this whole thread... I want to pose a new scenario/question.

In theory... To decrease nose-dive on braking, could you use Ascinder's method, by re-indexing the torsions at a "lowered" stance, then crank them up to stock height, giving them added tension/firmness?

Just a thought.

---JIM---

[Ldub]

So, in reading this whole thread... I want to pose a new scenario/question.

In theory... To decrease nose-dive on braking, could you use Ascinder's method, by re-indexing the torsions at a "lowered" stance, then crank them up to stock height, giving them added tension/firmness?

Just a thought.

---JIM---

IMO...

It shouldn't matter where the TB's are indexed...it still requires the same amount of force, to maintain the same load, at the same height...no matter what that height is, stock, lowered, or lifted.


But that's just me, I'm a different breed of cat...

I mean no disrespect towards anyone's opinion, and as always, mine is worth exactly whatcha paid for it, maybe even less...

[Ascinder]

After having done some further research into this I believe Larry and Justin were in fact correct. I had been informed that the torsion bars functioned differently than they actually do. If you look around on the internet there is a lot of information out there, as well as a lot of misinformation. I read some explanations of they worked and didn't really give it another thought, that was my mistake.

Getting back to your question:

n theory... To decrease nose-dive on braking, could you use Ascinder's method, by re-indexing the torsions at a "lowered" stance, then crank them up to stock height, giving them added tension/firmness?

Yes, I believe you could, but not for the reasons I mentioned. Justin(ZEUS) pointed out that my suspension felt stiffer due to the increased angles on the drivetrain and suspension components because now in order to nose-dive, the A-arms and wheels must be forced outwards in order to be able to move downwards. It takes more force because you are now working against leverage to squat the front end. Again, sorry for putting out any bad info.

[SlowPro48]

...I've heard if you grind up some Viagra and sprinkle it on your A-arms it will stiffen up your suspension.

[Ldub]

...I've heard if you grind up some Viagra and sprinkle it on your A-arms it will stiffen up your suspension.

Did you hear they're coming out with viagra in liquid form?

It will now be possible for a man to literally "pour himself a stiff one"...

Torsion Bar Suspension.................................A ARM!...

[Mile High VX]

Did you hear they're coming out with viagra in liquid form?

It will now be possible for a man to literally "pour himself a stiff one"...

Torsion Bar Suspension.................................A ARM!...

LMAO...