What would you guys do

[RamAirZ]

Ok, here's the deal. I have some 18" Borbet rims for sale and have had them for sale for some time now. Over 2 months ago a guy wanted to buy them and was pretty serious. He's in the air force and wasn't back in town yet from his deployment but was going to be back in about a week from our talks. He asked me to hold them for him because he was serious and I told him ok but I would prefer a deposit to do such. He said ok and asked me how much and I told him whatever he thought was fair and gave him my paypal addy. He sent me $110 and we scheduled to meet that weekend. Didn't hear from him for a few days and when the weekend got here I emailed him a few times trying to confirm our meeting, he said he still wanted to meet but might be a few days later because his plane didn't leave when it was supposed to supposedly. I waited about 4 days after the time he said he could meet again (the new day) and started asking him if he was in town yet, another week goes by and I start asking if he still wants them blah blah no reply. About 4 weeks or so after our meet date he says he's not gonna get them and now 62 days (checked paypal) from when he gave me the deposit, he's asking for it back and wanting to file disputes etc etc (he's past the 45 day paypal dispute window, not sure if he realizes that) and even tried to scare me with talking to legal counsel etc. I told him the deposit was just that, a deposit to hold the wheels to guarantee he showed up, he didn't, he loses his deposit. I missed out on a couple cash in hand buyers (including some members here) because I was holding them and now I STILL have them 2-3 months later. Should I tell him sorry do what you have to do, give him the deposit back (I don't think I should have to) or what? He trys to say since I didn't say non-refundable that it should be refundable, but to me, deposit and refundable don't go together :roll: I've never given a deposit and backed out and expected it back (just like a house with earnest money or breaking a lease on an apartment, etc etc). I just want some opinions on this. I think I was very reasonable and worked to his needs in the beginning, let him pick the deposit amount, the date for meet etc etc. I dunno...............

[brainwashed]

i collect vinyl records and i had a similar situation like this happen to me about a year ago over some pretty big $$$ 7"s.
i never gave the dude his deposit back and after i dug up some dirt on him ripping people off he never harassed me again.
but yeah! a deposit is a deposit. it's his lose. not yours. dude shouldn't have messed around if he was just gonna back out.

[circmand]

I say return minus fees etc. If he is just serving in the USA and just was lazy I say keep it

[RamAirZ]

he is here in panama city, he was at another base in the USA and came over to the one here in town, he's here now.

[vt_maverick]

I think you're certainly in the free to keep the money, but honestly I would just give it back since you haven't really incurred any expenses by waiting. If you already had a few cash-in-hand buyers it seems likely that they would still be interested, or that others would be in the future. So again, I think you could keep the money but it seems to me (and probably him) that since goods never exchanged hands you're just keeping the money because you can. Oh and WRT the legal issue, he may not have a leg to stand on, but that doesn't mean he can't make things a hassle for you. I'd just give it back and put him in the rear view mirror.

Btw, what email are you using? If it's not his AF email account, send me a PM with his full name and I'll get you his work email so you can harrass him there. Good thing with doing it there is that if it ever came to a JAG situation the evidence would be conveniently on the AF's network.

Good luck!

[VX KAT]

Maybe consider splitting it, refund half, call the other half "lost opportunity" costs....might get him to go away.

And deep down, I still want these wheels! I'll pay ANYONE that can find the right caps big money!!!

[RamAirZ]

Your right that I haven't incurred any expenses but I have had them taking up valuable space in my garage and having them so long has made me drop my price down, I dropped it more than he gave me for a deposit. He IS using his AF email account, here is something he recently sent:

"Sir, I understand your approach, but I was under the impression that the "deposit" was to hold the item for my return. I have record of the emails and none of them state a non-refundable deposit. That would be the only way you would be able to win that case. However I am willing to wait a till the 1st of August to receive payment due. I would much rather get this handled without filing a dispute with Paypal or with the Area Defense Council of Tyndall Air Force Base and my First Sergeant MSgt Sing. Thank You, for your quick response. Please let me know if August 1st is reasonable for you, and if sending the money via Paypal is suitable."

and another one:

This one is after I mentioned about deposits for holding an item for someone to buy is usually implied as non-refundable and I didn't think it had to be said and also asked what the defense council could possibly do (I think he said it with intent to try and scare me)

"Point one, understandings is one thing (this leads me to believe he understood initially it was non-refundable), what you can prove is another. I can prove that the term, "non-refundable" was not in the emails. We are dealing with an intended purchase not a lease contract for living. Point two, ADC will not do anything to you, but will assist me so I will have to keep them in the loop if there is a need to go downtown and have the assistance of an attorney. ADC is simply advocates for legal advice and issues that exceed my knowledge level. If you had not request the deposit you could have sold the wheels at anytime (he asked me to hold them for him and I said I would with a deposit). Also if you had of said that the deposit was non-refundable I would not have paid it. Paypal is a great payment method and I have prior experience with disputes and that's why I still use them for all my transactions(he must not know there is a 45 day max limit to file a dispute). If August 1st is too soon, I will accept half on the 1st and the remainder on the 15th of August."

I gave him the freedom to pick the deposit amount as well

[RamAirZ]

This was my last reply:

"I requested the deposit because you said you wanted them and told me you were for sure coming to get them. I didn't know I had to say it was non-refundable as any deposit is usually that way. I'll have to see what I can figure out but you do what you have to do. I was very open to your needs when we first discussed this and even told you just to give me what you thought was fair. I didn't request any amount from you and even kept checking in with you because you had given me the deposit and I did not want to sell them out from under you. I didn't hear from you for awhile after the time you said you still wanted to meet but your plane was delayed or something. I thought I was being very considerate and easy to work with."

[ZubrAZ]

teach the kid a business lesson and keep the money. he's accentuating the fact that there was no verbiage "non-refundable," neither there was a "refundable." Seems, he did not mention any extreme reasons for the money, he was not very communicative after giving the deposit, and simply changed his minds.

and dont be afraid of legal proceedings. most likely, it will not happen. even if it will, the common sense is on your side.

[Bob Barker]

I was about to say just to refund it since he's a member of the US military, and he could have gotten orders out of his control that may have played a roll in him needing the deposit back, but after reading some of the emails and his threatening tone I'd say no on the refund. Remember it can become a hassle for you if he wants to pursue this legally but it's also a bigger hassle for him having to start all the legal work and prove his point, and over such a small amount of money.

And I would continue to try to sell him the rims! Tell him this can all be solved if he would just come through with his end of the deal and pay the remaining amount owed on the rims and you will deliver. Then he can do what he wants with them... A deal was agreed on and he is the one backing out of it. I don't see how you can be guilty of anything.

[ZubrAZ]

maybe my common sense does not go along with legal officers, but here is the similar story: http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58880

[RamAirZ]

Ya I never said non-refundable as I thought it was understood and I can see how some courts would award it back to him plus I would have to cover the court costs if I lost. Honestly I don't think any lawyer would tell him to go after it, you'll spend more money in gas taking care of all this crap. I dunno....

[JHarris1385]

Only refund if you can get full price out of them. Otherwise teach him a lesson that you just don't wait around that long with a deposit. Pay in full and then they can rest in your garage untill then.

[RamAirZ]

I'm wondering if I should email him and mention that or wait to hear back from him.

[Scott Larson]

Maybe the question really comes down to, in the end, is it worth the worry and hassle? To me, I'd rather sleep easy and not feel somehow like I got one over on somebody... not saying that you did! None of this sounds malicious on either one of your parts.