Cladding

[rowhard]

R/R, personally, I don't like it, it's to fiddly. I have the best part of a full bottle if someone want to buy it.

Looking forward to Riff Raff's experience with TS-1.

Until then, I will stick with One Grand ERV http://store.carcareonline.com/onegr...pumpspray.aspx
Yea, I have to apply it every wash, but it takes me about 6 minutes to go around the VX, simply spray and wipe

[RickOKC]

HUGE supposition on my part to follow....

The Armordillo website has a statement about the GM cladding. To paraphrase, it says the release agent used when molding the parts continues to move to the top surface of the cladding when subjected to sunlight heat. GM didn't make our cladding but I wonder if something similar is happening to us. Could such a chemical continue to leach to the surface which might weaken the bond between the cladding and the RR?

We use silverware because silver reacts in a way that kills bacteria. Not only did some smart cookie figger that one out centuries ago, anudder smartie figured out a way to make a paint that would the same same thing. Some heating and air conditioning equipment now has silver-infused paint on the interior to prevent the growth of bacteria -- and it is designed so it will continue to leach for DECADES.

[RickOKC]

We were supposed to get a major rain storm today and I was hoping it would wash the Meguiar's Natural Shine off my cladding. I scrubbed all that Bondo crap-o off of it last weekend and revealed the nice-looking cladding it was hiding. I want to play guinea pig and test some products side-by-side: Natural Shine, Back to Black and 303.

I've used Natural Shine on trim and tires for years and it will usually last through 2 or 3 car washes since I always use a good car wash soap designed to not strip car wax, etc. It looked very good and dark on the little spot where I tried it out -- then I went nuts and couldn't help applying it all the way around. DOH! Got ahead of myself!

Never used Back to Black before and would never consider it for regular use because it has been described as a dust magnet. I know it wouldn't work for me but I'd like to see if it looks darker. (My workplace is so dusty that I often have "dust drifts" (like mini-snow drifts) on my car at the end of the day.) A coworker lent me a bottle.

Never used 303 before, either, but I picked up a bottle on my way home the other day. Looking forward to trying it out. I cleaned the Natural Shine off the half-moon on the rear door and applied it a little while ago. It looks pretty good.

I think I'm going to apply each of these in vertical stripes on a door panel to see how they stand up side-by-side. I'll probably leave it alone for a day or two, then wash it a time or two. Looking forward to playing around!

[VX KAT]

In anticipation of applying R/R, I went almost 3 months with no treatment of any kind on my cladding (and nothing from the car wash), actually got a tad faded out looking. Even recall somebody in Moab 2009 telling me to treat my cladding as it was so dry looking! I prepped with washing after washing, then even used Windex and 409 (I think). Really don't "think" the front cladding was prepped in any different fashion, but I agree, mav, that could be a possibility. My can could also have some contamination or something different in the batch. Guess we'll never know. But I'm really glad to hear it's working so well for some.

Know the label said it actually penetrates the plastic, but I can't say that I "saw" that, or could really say one way or the other. I do know it formed a nice hard satin finish that never washed off or deteriorated in any way. About a year later, I decided to add a 2nd coat cuz I read the instructions and it said you can do that, and I thought it would be a good, final step.

When I did the 2nd coat, it seemed to me to be much shinier, which I didn't like, but oh well, it's permanent.

John, you're using One Grand ERV....did you find a way to remove the R/R, or does that stuff successfully go on top of R/R? I've even thought of using some super fine sandpaper and just ever so lightly sanding everything, hoping it would open up some pores, that I could then soak with 303 or the TS-1.

Boy, my 1st choice would be to "remove" the R/R if I could.....then try the TS-1 or 303. I'm now with you John, wiping it down with something frequently would not be a problem, now that I know what I know.

[VX KAT]

HUGE supposition on my part to follow....

The Armordillo website has a statement about the GM cladding. To paraphrase, it says the release agent used when molding the parts continues to move to the top surface of the cladding when subjected to sunlight heat. GM didn't make our cladding but I wonder if something similar is happening to us. Could such a chemical continue to leach to the surface which might weaken the bond between the cladding and the RR?

Hummm, I too read that, interesting thought Rick. Wonder if that has anything to do with my cladding appearing to be "lighter" gray than almost anybody else...maybe lighter gray molecules continued to be released and moved to the surface??

I want to play guinea pig and test some products side-by-side: Natural Shine, Back to Black and 303.

I think I'm going to apply each of these in vertical stripes on a door panel to see how they stand up side-by-side. I'll probably leave it alone for a day or two, then wash it a time or two. Looking forward to playing around!

That's a great idea, thanks so much for taking it on....and being willing to drive around possibly looking like a Zebra for a while.

[RickOKC]

Hummm, I too read that, interesting thought Rick. Wonder if that has anything to do with my cladding appearing to be "lighter" gray than almost anybody else...maybe lighter gray molecules continued to be released and moved to the surface??

Hi Kat!

I've read other messages where you wondered if some VX cladding was darker or lighter than others right from the factory. I am NOT implying that is incorrect, but I wonder if you have ever parked your VX nose to nose with a lighter paint-colored VX to see how they compare with the light hitting the same panels at the same angle? The "Same Color Illusion" started rattlin' 'round my poor ol' empty brain-thingie after you mentioned that. My white paint is so brilliantly reflective that I wonder if my same dark-looking cladding wouldn't look light gray on an Ebony and would be somewhere in-between on your awesome Foxfire.

????

A different issue that made me think about this again the other day was when I was looking at the photos for a VX for sale and in some photos the cladding looked very light gray and from other angles it looked jet black -- on the same vehicle! Could the difference in color be due to even a slightly different lighting angle?

Again tonight I was reminded of that. My half-moon is now coated with 303 and the cladding below is coated with the Meguiars. My impression is that the 303 is a bit more reflective. Sitting in the garage with the extremely bright overhead fluorescent bulbs on, the Megiars looks much darker. When I turn them off and just have my single garage "night light" shining on it from directly behind, the 303 looks a lot darker. I just think it's really hard to tell not only due to the different angles of those surfaces, but also because of the difference in the colors between (hence my desire to see "stripes" of various treatments on the same panel.)

So, variances in adjacent colors, lighting angles and reflectivity.... lot's of things that could make a surprising difference. And, as always... I'm probably completely wrong - and please forgive me - I have to work with engineers all day so I always feel like I have to keep up with the way those weirdos think! LOL!

[RickOKC]

Oh yeah... and I'm not too worried about driving around in a zebra-mobile for a while... I have no doubt the cleaner I used last weekend will remove EVERYTHING. At least now I know to wear gloves (my hands look like raw meat.)

[VX KAT]

Rick- yer too funn-E! Those engineers must be rubbing off on you!

Agree, all your points about lighting, reflectiveness, angle of view, photos, etc are very valid....but I actually solicited opinions while on "the stoop" of the ole' Red Rock Inn in May with 5 or so other VXs right there side by side/ next to me. Can't recall who all it was (maybe tomdietrying, scott harness, LDub, Kenny....anybody else recall this?) I recall the consensus was that mine appeared to be lighter all the way around.

Mine was also the only Foxfire and I recall we discussed how different contrast between paint color and cladding could have an illusion effect. Also discussed the possibility that my cladding was just from a different dye lot that happened to be a touch lighter.

I personally think we can rule out the theory that Foxfires came with a lighter color intentionally, since every pic I've seen of other Foxfires (i.e. vt mav, Pepino and several others) "seem" to have darker cladding than mine....of course subject to all the limitations of pictures, mentioned above.

Boy, I sure have been........

[PK]

and please forgive me - I have to work with engineers all day so I always feel like I have to keep up with the way those weirdos think! LOL!

Hey, watch it buddy -

I resemble that remark!!!!!


PK

[tom4bren]

Me too PK ... me too!

I guess it's true - Great minds run amuck ... err ... run together

[rowhard]

John, you're using One Grand ERV....did you find a way to remove the R/R, or does that stuff successfully go on top of R/R? I've even thought of using some super fine sandpaper and just ever so lightly sanding everything, hoping it would open up some pores, that I could then soak with 303 or the TS-1.

Yes, it wiped right over the top, but then the R/R has been on for over a year. As far as sanding, think I wouldn't. You would be dubbing contaminants into the substrate it's self. Seem's like I read to use turpentine to remove R/R.

[vt_maverick]

So maybe the difference between Sue and Grif's experience is heat? If our cladding has the same issues as GM cladding, which is to say contaminants are driven to the surface by heat, you would have to assume that process is occuring much faster in Arizona than in Washington or Alaska. So maybe the extreme heat drives the contaminants to the surface, which then undermines R/R's chemical bond with the cladding surface, which in turn causes it to be brittle and easily flake at the smallest impact (bugs, etc.). Just a theory anyway.

And lighting/angles definitely make a huge difference in how your cladding appears. Take the three photos below of my "darker" cladding for instance. Photo #1 shows my cladding without any treatment whatsoever in the shade on a sunny morning. As you can see it looks horrible, and has a similar blue-ish hue to Sue's cladding (at least that's my perception). But if you look at picture #2 the cladding looks much darker, when in fact the cladding is completely untreated in that picture as well. The difference is that although it was also a bright and sunny day, the sun was not quite directly overhead, so the cargo carrier was casting a bit of a shadow over the cladding. In picture #3 I had just treated the cladding with B2B, and when combined with overcast weather, it's probably the darkest my cladding has EVER looked.







Sue, I obviously haven't seen your VX in person but I don't know that I buy that your cladding is somehow different in composition/pigmentation - it just seems too unlikely that you'd be the only member experiencing the same problem. Personally I think it may be that you haven't yet found the right product for such a hot and dusty environment. I would definitely try to find a way to remove R/R so I could try other products. Do you think paint thinner/stripper (diluted) might take it off?

[rowhard]

step 6, turpentine substitute. http://www.carsystem.ca/shared_files...estorer_gb.pdf

[VX KAT]

Step 6 says "Liquid R/R" can be removed with tup subs, do you interpret that to mean turp sub would not work after it hardens?

I also agree with you mav, the odds that "my" cladding is actually different than everybody else's is so remote. Also, I'm in the mountains North of Phoenix, so my max temp this summer has been about 97, today is 85. We're about 20 degrees cooler than Phoenix (sorry Luna!) Yes, 97 is still plenty hot, but just wanted to clarify the temp issue, plus it's always in the garage, so very very little prolonged direct sun exposure.

My humidity is also VERY low, usually in the teens, except when it rains, then goes up to maybe 50%+.....Wonder if the low humidity may contribute to it becoming brittle and easy to "crack" and flake?

Bluish hue- Yes, that's an excellent description of the color of my cladding. And since so many in Moab saw mine and agreed it "looked" lighter than most, I tend to think it is lighter, for whatever reason.

I'm really interested in trying to remove it. Think there's any danger of the turp subs melting or marring the cladding itself? I'll pick up some turp subs today and try an inconspicuous area. Also going to wipe some 303 on and see what happens.

I really like this discussion, we're playing CSI on this issue! Thanks everybody.

[RickOKC]

Hey, watch it buddy -

I resemble that remark!!!!!


PK

Me too PK ... me too!

I guess it's true - Great minds run amuck ... err ... run together

WHAT?!?! I can't even find sanctuary from engineers here?!!??
NOoooOOooOOoooooooOOOooo!

It sure is a brainy group here. First you guys and I also saw a picture of a sign indicating Bart is a doctor.