33" or 34" tires; any effective differences?

[dbp]

So I don't have a VehiCROSS YET, but hopefully this all changes this weekend. My first change will be a lift (likely 913 springs... just like the look better, and appreciate what's been said about them being stiffer) and wheels/tires.

I've been leaning towards 33" tires, but I love the way Ldub's 35's look... yet that also seems ridiculous. I'm okay with hammering, cutting, etc. But I also want this to be fully functional. This is a 6th vehicle for me; it's only purpose will be getting me to and from trails (primarily obscure hiking/backpacking trails that my current vehicles just won't go), but also since I have it, it will also be used for just pure driving fun; I look forward to going over rocks, etc on very serious "trails", as well as mud, etc. I will never commute in the VehiCROSS (except to show it off to co-workers). So assume the only time I'm on paved roads is to get to obscure places.

From what I've read here, 33's seem very reasonable with some cutting of the cladding and hammering. Okay, cool. No problem. Is there really much of a difference between that at 34's? Any reason to NOT go to 34s? Of course I'm worried about things like CV joint wear, and just that much unsprung weight... Wheels will be 17x8 with 0 offset. The tires I'm getting will be the Goodyear MT/R with Kevlar, in either 285/70/17 (33"), or 305/70/17 (34.1"). Obviously with the 305 it could just rub more because it's wider. Is that worth worrying about? The 34" tires are 64 pounds, vs 58lbs of the 33s. Is that different enough to be concerned? Both are way more than stock already. Are 34s less likely to fit under the wheel well under full compression on serious trails? I want to be able to use what travel is available without worry! I understand it won't stop/go as quickly, etc, but I'm more concerned about wear on the various parts of the driveline, and also modification needed to make them fit. I've read people saying watching the guys with 35" tires is stressful, as in, it looks like the parts are so stressed and ready to break. I don't want that... I want reliability.

Hmm... BFG MT T/A KM2 comes in a 255/80R17, 33.3" size at a mere 49 pounds... an interesting option??? Not as aggressive, though...

I appreciate all your comments, and look forward to sharing my future experiences with you all!

David

[RamAirZ]

I think the main reason alot of guys don't run 34's is the sizes in certain rim choices. Like for me, I have a 16" rim and there aren't a whole lot of 34" tire choices out there, yes there are some but not alot. I have 33's on mine with 912's and I LOVE it, it rides great, handles good still (great after the urethane sway bar bushings) and great offroad. I know Marlin has 34's on his rig (I'm sure he'll chime in when he see's this) and he's running the Goodyears too. Here's a post from him about the tires:

Update on the kevlars. Performance was awesome on the trail, zero problems.
I pressure washed the truck today, noticed the tires looked funny. In order for white lettering, they paint the outside white, then put black over that, and shave off the outer part on the lettering, voila, white letters. Well, my black layer is coming off, so I will end up with a whole white wall. Boo!!! So I called Goodyear, they told me to take it in. I finally found an actual Goodyear store. They are ordering me four brand new ones, no charge. They said it will be a few months. Woo Hoo! I am driving around on free rubber!! I used 1/32" in 1000 miles. Not bad. The guy at the shop was not friendly at all, and kept trying to get out of it. He was like "its gonna be months, do you still wanna do it?" The longer it takes the better, as far as I am concerned.
SO I guess I just have to keep them covered in mud
He commented that there were rub marks and some nicks in the sidewall, so it might not be covered. I asked him to take a look at his own site, that is what the tire was built for, hence the 1" thick sidewall. LOL, what a tool.

I just got my new Kevlars installed. The manager proceeded to lecture me on the use of my tires,saying it was obvious that the sidewalls had contacted rocks and other sharp surfaces...duh!!! I told him, "no ****, thats what those tires and my truck were made for". He was not amused, he seemed disappointed that Goodyear offered to replace my tires for free, I didn't pay a single dime. They did not wear well either, 1/8" off of the front an 1/16" off the rear in less than 2K miles. I also managed to tear off a few of the outer lugs. They handle awesome, and are very quiet, and are killer in mud and on rocks. But based on wear and cosmetic issues, i would not buy these again. The new tires are slightly different, so hopefully Goodyear fixed their QA problems on the cosmetic black coating and the softness of the rubber. I will post up in a few months if they do the same thing as my first set.
On the RS I am putting some Swamper TSL Bias Ply tires. Those things are indestructible and much cheaper than the Kevlars. I could buy 5 for less than I bought 4 Kevlars.

In all honesty, I think you'll be happy with either size. Chris (Marlin) was running 33's before the 34's and alot of guys are running 32's as well. I love the way my VX sits and rides. Whenever I need new tires I'll probably end up with 34x12.50 TrXus MT's or some 34" TSL's (either the 9.50 narrow's or the 10.50 LTB's). By then I'll probably have a new daily anyways. You should look into a diff drop to help with your CV angles to make your shafts last longer, do a balljoint flip and possibly a spacer depending on how high you crank the t-bars, and you should be fine. I myself really like the look of my 285's (33x11.50) on the VX, not too wide, not too skinny. Just remember, the wider you go, the more trimming/hammering you'll have to do especially with a 0 offset.

[Ldub]

One inch...

[RamAirZ]

^ haha

[ZEUS]

So I don't have a VehiCROSS YET, but hopefully this all changes this weekend. My first change will be a lift (likely 913 springs... just like the look better, and appreciate what's been said about them being stiffer) and wheels/tires.

I've been leaning towards 33" tires, but I love the way Ldub's 35's look... yet that also seems ridiculous. I'm okay with hammering, cutting, etc. But I also want this to be fully functional. This is a 6th vehicle for me; it's only purpose will be getting me to and from trails (primarily obscure hiking/backpacking trails that my current vehicles just won't go), but also since I have it, it will also be used for just pure driving fun; I look forward to going over rocks, etc on very serious "trails", as well as mud, etc. I will never commute in the VehiCROSS (except to show it off to co-workers). So assume the only time I'm on paved roads is to get to obscure places.

From what I've read here, 33's seem very reasonable with some cutting of the cladding and hammering. Okay, cool. No problem. Is there really much of a difference between that at 34's? Any reason to NOT go to 34s? Of course I'm worried about things like CV joint wear, and just that much unsprung weight... Wheels will be 17x8 with 0 offset. The tires I'm getting will be the Goodyear MT/R with Kevlar, in either 285/70/17 (33"), or 305/70/17 (34.1"). Obviously with the 305 it could just rub more because it's wider. Is that worth worrying about? The 34" tires are 64 pounds, vs 58lbs of the 33s. Is that different enough to be concerned? Both are way more than stock already. Are 34s less likely to fit under the wheel well under full compression on serious trails? I want to be able to use what travel is available without worry! I understand it won't stop/go as quickly, etc, but I'm more concerned about wear on the various parts of the driveline, and also modification needed to make them fit. I've read people saying watching the guys with 35" tires is stressful, as in, it looks like the parts are so stressed and ready to break. I don't want that... I want reliability.

Hmm... BFG MT T/A KM2 comes in a 255/80R17, 33.3" size at a mere 49 pounds... an interesting option??? Not as aggressive, though...

I appreciate all your comments, and look forward to sharing my future experiences with you all!

David

Check out the tires side by side if you can before you make a purchase. I think you'll find the BFG's to be just as aggressive - I prefer them to the MT/R design and they have proven to perform all over the place. IMO, if you get the 33"s you will want the 34"s eventually.

[Riff Raff]

IMO, if you get the 33"s you will want the 34"s eventually.

LOL, how true. ZEUS is correct in that you'll always wish you had gone bigger after your initial tire purchase. Thus, the magical 35" O.D. tires are easily within reach of the VX.

DBP (David)--- When it comes to wheels/tires, the VX is limited only to what can fit and most importantly "turn" within the FRONT wheel-wells (the rear wheel-wells have gobs of extra space). Basically; if it will fit on the front, then it will easily fit on the rear. I'd like you to consider this wheel & tire size set-up for your future VX, and here's why:

WHEELS: 2000/2001 OEM 18x7 Stock VX Rims.
Why: The OEM rims have the proper offset/backspacing to absolutely minimize front wheel-well rubbing (plus they look damn good). Many tires that won't fit with aftermarket wheels, will easily fit with the OEM 18x7 rims. In the VX world, using the OEM 18x7 Stock Rim is the "true secret" to mounting larger tires with minimal rubbing issues within the tightly cramped front wheel-wells.

TIRE SIZE: LT285/75R18 (11.5 x 35)
Why: The 285 series width is the widest tire that will still fit on a narrow 7" wide rim (i.e. OEM 18x7 rim). The 285/75R18 is the skinniest 35" O.D. tire made which is DOT approved (there is the extremely skinny 35x10-15LT "Baja Pro" dune-buggy tire by Mickey-Thompson, but it is not DOT approved for street use).

BTW, the Mickey-Thompson, "Baja Pro" (dune-buggy tire), 35x10-15LT (35" O.D./40 lbs) although not DOT approved would make an excellent full-size spare compatible in O.D. to the 285/75R18 and is super-lightweight as it only weighs 40 frickin' pounds (the Mickey-Thompson website shows this specific tire is now "discontinued"; however, it is still available from multiple tire suppliers on the internet).

There are only four(4) tires made in the world in the rare 285/75R18 size, they are:

A. Toyo, Open Country - A/T, LT285/75R18 (35" O.D./66 lbs).
Why Unique: It is the only true "A/T" tire made in this size.

B. Toyo, Open Country - M/T, LT285/75R18 (35" O.D./70 lbs).
Why Unique: It is the only true "M/T" tire made in this size WITHOUT pre-pinned stud capability.

C. Maxxis, MT-762 "Bighorn", LT285/75R18 (35" O.D./70 lbs).
Why Unique: It is the only true "M/T" tire made in this size WITH pre-pinned stud capability.

D. Good/Year, Wrangler MT/R with Kevlar, LT285/75R18 (35" O.D./65 lbs).
Why Unique: It is the only true "asymmetrical" multi-role tire made in this size.

By using both the OEM 18x7 Stock VX rims in conjunction with the LT285/75R18 size tire will enable you to obtain a 35" O.D. tire with very minimal rubbing issues within the very tightly cramped front wheel-wells of the VX. Sure; you will have to lift, trim, and BFH a little, but this set-up combination will provide the least amount of installation headaches possible. To my knowledge, no VX owner has ever done this wheel/tire set-up on a VX (you would be the first).

A quick word about VX "lifting"-- get the wheels/tires mounted and test-fitted on the VX first, and then lift the VX afterward only as necessary to provide proper clearance for the chosen wheel/tire set-up. This method of VX lifting will help minimize future CV related issues by not lifting too-far in advance as required for a given wheel/tire set-up. Your lifting gauge will be clearance within the front wheel-wells. When they finally fit on the front axle; stop lifting, because they will most likely already fit on the rear axle.

[Marlin]

*sigh*, here we go again. Alright, update on the Kevlars. Whatever they changed, it seems to be much better. The rubber is much harder than the original formula. I have no problems as of yet and no signs of wear in 500 miles. (as compared to the 1/8" in <1k miles with first set) I think that is why goodyear agreed to replace mine, they knew they had a problem.

The kevlars really are indestructible. They also look SWEEEET!!!! The asymmetrical tread pattern is where its at! But they are pricey, and if you are just going to randomly play in the mud and half heartedly drive on gravel roads, save some bucks and get the BFGs or traditional MTRs. I ended up not getting the TSLs for the wifeys RS, I got some 33" treadwrights instead. I couldn't pass up 4 brand new mud tires for 500 bucks shipped.

I would say do what you can to get a 34" tire. The goodyear site says the 275/70/18 is 33.4", by tape measure in the driveway at 50psi is a hair over 34", so go figure. I have no rub as far as turning in the front, but I had to cut and hammer a bit for both 32s and then some more for the 34s. Rear rub only on full flex and going down hill. Just minor plastic rub.

[Jay Dunford]

D. Good/Year, Wrangler MT/R with Kevlar, LT285/75R18 (35" O.D./65 lbs).
Why Unique: It is the only true "directional" multi-role tire made in this size.

Actually they are NOT directional, they do have an asymetrical tread. They are supposed to be mounted with the same side "out" on each side of the vehicle. This allows you to rotate the tires using an x-pattern rotation which helps a bunch on cupping type wear on MT tires. 15K on mine and about 3/4 tread left and very even wear across the tire.

[dbp]

By using both the OEM 18x7 Stock VX rims in conjunction with the LT285/75R18 size tire will enable you to obtain a 35" O.D. tire with very minimal rubbing issues within the very tightly cramped front wheel-wells of the VX.

Hmmm... you know Riff Raff, that's a fairly brilliant idea, I must say. I am flying to Idaho to likely pickup a 1999 Ebony tomorrow, but it does have stock 18" wheels on it (no worry; I know the story why... will post if I pick it up). I definitely wanted black wheels, though... ideally wanted matte black with a polished rim. I previously had thought to powder coat the stock wheels black before I had the aftermarket approach, so perhaps I could go back to that plan. 35" with minimal rubbing sounds VERY appealing, and the fact that it comes in the tire I wanted anyway makes this even more likely. I know a powder coater locally who I thought could do a set of 16s for around $300... hopefully similar for the 18's. I wonder if he could leave the lip untouched? Or grind it and polish it... That'd be sweet... I'll have to give them a call on Monday and perhaps get that ball rolling. Sounds like a sweet idea. BTW, there is a VehiCROSS on autotrader with black powder coated 18" wheels, and they look pretty sweet:



I'll have to mull this over, but I'm strongly considering that approach. Are the stock 18's fairly light? I still worry about the weight... but 65 pounds for the tires isn't TOO bad compared to most 35"... Thanks for the suggestion!

David

[Marlin]

Actually they are NOT directional, they do have an asymetrical tread. They are supposed to be mounted with the same side "out" on each side of the vehicle. This allows you to rotate the tires using an x-pattern rotation which helps a bunch on cupping type wear on MT tires. 15K on mine and about 3/4 tread left and very even wear across the tire.

The goodyear regional rep here told me I could mount them either way, the goodyear dealer refused to mount them any way other than "this side outboard". Why you make a white letter MT I ahve no idea. But in the size I have, its the only option.

I am glad to hear about your good wear. I think my new ones will wear similarly, the tread is still shiny, as compared to my first set went dull in a few weeks. QA problems solved I hope. Since I only put 3-4K miles a year on the VX, hopefully these tires last me the life of the truck

[Riff Raff]

[Riff Raff]

Are the stock 18's fairly light? I still worry about the weight... but 65 pounds for the tires isn't TOO bad compared to most 35"... Thanks for the suggestion!

David

DBP (David)--- It's my sincere pleasure to help you with any VX wheel/tire questions. Powder-coating wheels is an "art" by itself, and experienced powder-coaters can do literally anything custom and is only limited by your imagination (and $$$ of course). The OEM 18x7 Stock Rim weighs 28 lbs, which is comparible to many aftermarket rims.

A quick word about individual tire weight-- the VX-OEM tire of 245/60R18 weighs only 34 lbs each, so putting on heavy 65+ lbs aftermarket tires is quite an increase in unsprung weight. MPG, launch, and braking distance will suffer dramatically. The tire industry recommends no more than 10 lbs over OEM tire weight-- or in the case of the VX, a tire of no more than a maximum of 44 lbs each to maintain proper safety standards (especially braking distance). Obviously, when selecting massive aftermarket tires the 10-pound safety margin cannot be maintained.

When using heavy aftermarket tires, it's best to increase your following distance from the car in front of you to allow for the increased braking distance required to stop the VX in an emergency panic stop. You will soon discover that having an increased safety cushion of space around your VX will help prevent you from causing a possible rear-end collision and allow you to take evasive action into avoiding a possible accident, especially in today's grid-lock freeway situations which offer little advance warning to brake.

Please keep us posted as your VX plans progress. Welcome to our close-knit family here on VX.Info and to the addiction. Your life is about to change forever after you aquire your VX.

[dbp]

Riff Raff,

I've read many of your posts on wheels/tires as I've been searching about it over the last few weeks. I appreciate your approach. I am aware of the issue with unsprung weight and stopping distances, etc. I have a '70 Chevelle that's a 12 second car in the quarter mile and has drums all around. :-D Speaking of a vehicle that's underbraked... so I'll definitely know to be careful here. Though my usual street vehicles are things that have awesome brakes as I track my cars and motorcycles often, so I will certainly have to get used to it again.

Thanks for telling me the stock wheels weight, too! I've been searching for that for 15 minutes! Sheesh... My biggest worry is all these people talking about busting front axles and stuff like that. So with these 35s, I'll have 93pounds of wheel/tire weight. Man that's a lot... I don't plan on jacking the thing up TOO high, just enough to clear everything, so hopefully the CV's won't suffer too much. I think my current concern in all of this is the weight... I've seen posts of other people saying things like, "Looks cool with those 35s, but let me know when your front axl snaps!" Does that really happen? Yet tons of people wear 33s, which are usually around 60 pounds. Is 5 more pounds really anything to worry about? Thanks,

David

PS, oh yeah, I see you're in Tacoma. Perhaps one of these days we'll have to get together and find some fun places to go! What size tires are you running?

[RamAirZ]

Glad to see your new set is doing good Chris! I figured you'd get in here sooner or later, but FYI, you have ALOT more trimming than most of us up front lol. Just joshing with ya. And dbp, when are you going to do a disc swap on that Chevelle, it isn't that expensive and if you plan to keep drag racing it you will end up REALLY wanting them at some point lol.

[Riff Raff]

I see you're in Tacoma. Perhaps one of these days we'll have to get together and find some fun places to go! What size tires are you running?

DBP (David)--- Happy to help, and glad to know you're quite wise with a variety of automotive issues and experienced in racing. Sometimes I don't know what level of expertise a new inquirer might have, so I often try to write in very simple terms to communicate effectively-- I meant no offense on my part, and I know you didn't take it in a negative way.

You can count on us meeting someday, and I will make it a personal mission with anxious anticipation. I am in touch with fellow member ROWHARD (Olympia, WA) on a daily basis, so we already have a little PNW grouping. There are quite a few members from the Oregon area as well, and member DON MOORE is one of our most active. If he see's this posting, I'm sure he'll chime in with some sarcastic comment (in true D.M. form).

My VX is 100% Stock "non-lifted" (no TB cranks, with OEM-RS) and I'm running the famous General - Grabber AT2 in P275/65R18 (32" O.D./44 lbs) mounted on the OEM 18x7 Stock Rims. They are absolutely bolt-on perfect due to the OEM rims without any further modifications; although the fitting is extremely tight, and just had to trim a little tiny triangle corner of front inner cladding (very common).

With a little bit more trimming of cladding and a couple of whacks with a BFH, a 100% Stock "non-lifted" VX can still handle a 275/70R18 (33" O.D.) without any lifting and remain at the stock height (no TB cranks, with OEM-RS). It will be extremely tight, but the 275/70R18 (33" O.D.) will still fit without any lifting (only creative trimming & BFH required). I had once considered the BFG - Rugged Trail in P275/70R18 (33" O.D./46 lbs) due to its extreme lightweight, but instead chose the much more aggressive Grabber AT2 for its incredible specifications in every tire catagory while still being lightweight.

Any tire "OVER" the height of 33" O.D., will require some sort of VX "lifting". Perhaps only front TB cranks; depending upon tire/wheel set-up, and then perhaps the addition of taller RS for even taller tires. You'll just have to play with it as you go.

If you decide to go with the OEM 18x7 Stock Rims with LT285/75R18 (35" O.D.); please take copious notes and pictures during the installation, as you will clearly set the new benchmark/standard for the rest who may be considering membership in the exclusive VX 35" O.D. Club (which there are very few current members). I predict success on your part, and would imagine your lead will be emulated many times in the future by other VX members following in your footsteps.