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  1. #1
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    Rearended (yeah another)

    How likely is it for my VX to be totaled after a rear end collision? The guys kia that nose dived into my tow hitch is crushed and will be scrap metal for sure, my truck has damaged plastic cladding on the rear bumper and spare tire sections, the tow hitch is bent down at about a *45 angle and is bolted to the frame. The doors don't close smoothly now, they have a slight "upward hitch" when shutting...

    Is it likely to be totaled or repaired? I know that's a hard one to answer, but assuming it has frame damage in the back with the tow hitch attached at the frame and the doors not closing properly.

  2. #2
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    Man, there must be some bad juju going around. Glad you're OK and sorry to hear this.

    Recall reading on the "superbumper.com" site a tow hitch mounted to the frame can actually cause frame damage because it transmits all the force right to it. Of course, this is a site selling the superbumper which they claim can absorb some of the impact and reduce chance of damage to car, so don't know how true it is,...........but makes me wonder if that's what might be found on yours.

    Remember there's a new rear bumper that's been listed here and ebay in case they say they can't find one (or don't want to try too hard).

    Hope it works out OK for you!
    VX KAT
    ....the adventure BEGINS ANEW! ...2015......
    Remember that life is not measured in the breaths you take, but rather in the moments that take your breath away.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by VX KAT View Post
    Recall reading on the "superbumper.com" site a tow hitch mounted to the frame can actually cause frame damage because it transmits all the force right to it. Of course, this is a site selling the superbumper which they claim can absorb some of the impact and reduce chance of damage to car, so don't know how true it is,...........but makes me wonder if that's what might be found on yours.
    I recall Tone posting a similar comment in a thread years ago (seriously I'm running out of threads to read ) when comparing the pros/cons of his hitch vs. the Dylan/Curt style hitches. I believe he said that Dylan/Curt hitches bolt directly to the frame rails, and thus were more likely to cause frame torsion/twisting. His hitch would only affect the bumper/cross member, but the trade-off was that his hitch didn't have as high a tongue weight rating.

  4. #4
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    Lightbulb six of one half dozen of the other

    Quote Originally Posted by vt_maverick View Post
    I recall Tone posting a similar comment in a thread years ago (seriously I'm running out of threads to read ) when comparing the pros/cons of his hitch vs. the Dylan/Curt style hitches. I believe he said that Dylan/Curt hitches bolt directly to the frame rails, and thus were more likely to cause frame torsion/twisting. His hitch would only affect the bumper/cross member, but the trade-off was that his hitch didn't have as high a tongue weight rating.
    If your tow hitch hooks to the frame force will be sent to the frame. This is the way it is designed as the frame can take more force before bending and it takes force away from the accident that would be applied to your body in the wreck

    If the tow hook hooks to the bumper It will handle a lot less weight, less damage to the frame but the force has to go somewhere so it will be applied to your bumper (hooked to frame) and the rear door as well as your body.

    Given the choice frame damage is better than being permanently handicapped. Remeber the tow hook will not absorb any force and physics proves it has to go somewhere.
    "Take it up with my butt, cuz he's the only one that gives a crap"

    Carter Pewterschmidt

  5. #5
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    Thanks for that info about the tow hitch absorbtion. If they don't want to dig into checking the frame until I'm satisfied I'll try to point the shop in that site's direction.

  6. #6
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    if its any confort...most of the VX i see while perusing the salvage yard sites, day in day out.... have "FRONT END" damage....so if worse comes to worse..1+1=1 good'n.....and second thought, if insurance does total it...good chance you can buy back the totaled, what they now consider, carcass, for cheap....sorta BOGO sale
    Last edited by VXjunky : 01/20/2011 at 07:39 PM

  7. #7
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    For what its worth, as I understand it our VX's use traditional body-on-frame construction as opposed to more modern unibody construction. This means that in the case of frame damage, the body can be removed, the frame straightened, and the body panels put back on more or less intact. This makes the dreaded "frame damage" diagnoses much less of a terminal condition.

    Higher end collision shops have computerized frame machines to do just that kind of job.

  8. #8
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    Sorry to hear about the misfortune Bob and hope all goes well with the repairs and the insurance company.

    If they end up totaling the VX and you don't buy it back and fix it on your own, you might consider taking any mods or add-ons, like a roof rack, off and selling them on the forum.

    When I had my '69 Camaro get totaled the insurance company only said it needed to roll when they came and got it from in front of my house. Needless to say they pretty much got a rollling chasis and it wasn't rollini' on my mag wheels and Mickey Thompson N50's....
    Live, Love, Forgive and Never Give Up

  9. #9
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    Dang. Must be somthin goin around. I just got back the butchers bill from insurance, Got a check for almost 1300 for repairs. Which is gonna go to myself so I fixit lol. Hopefully won't turn out bad. Good luck though man! I think I am definitely going t obe picking up one of the superbumper things too.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    ... in the case of frame damage, the body can be removed, the frame straightened, and the body panels put back on more or less intact.
    Actually, they usually don't even need to remove the body panels unless the frame is severely damaged.

    When they were straightening the one frame member on mine that was bent after I parked it on top of a van, they didn't have to remove any of the body panels. It even came back into perfect alignment after the repair (they said that was a VERY good indication of the process).

    BTW, sorry to hear of your accident. Let us know if we can help.
    Last edited by tom4bren : 01/21/2011 at 12:58 PM
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Put a smiley after you say that Bub.

  11. #11
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    Thought I'd share some more info I got from the president of Superbumper.com concerning the energy forces when the hitch is hit in a rear-end collision.

    Sue:

    Sorry to hear about the accident and thanks for the tip on the web site…it is getting a little too cluttered.

    Anyway, getting back to your question…Receiver hitches are bolted directly to the frame…unless it is a unibody construction vehicle. I believe your vehicle is built on a frame.

    When you get hit from the rear, a lot of the crash energy is transferred directly to the frame via the receiver hitch (if the vehicle has one) and ultimately to the occupants. I say “a lot” because some of this crash energy may be absorbed by the bumper, bumper cover, end gate, etc. – unless it’s a direct hit on the hitch. Then all the force is transferred by the receiver hitch.

    We have a video of the Chevrolet Trailblazer from 2002 that was crashed into a pole at 5 mph by the Insurance Institute For Highway Safety. The result was NO damage because the receiver hitch hit the pole directly. All of the force from this collision would have been transferred directly to the occupants because none of the vehicle’s other parts absorbed any of the crash energy. This is a typical example. If your receiver hitch protrudes out beyond the bumper (like most pickup trucks for instance) chances are all the impact energy will end up going through the frame to the occupants because there’s nothing being absorbed…by your vehicle. There is some energy being absorbed in a two vehicle collision but most of it is being done by the bullet vehicle as the front end crushes. A receiver hitch completely changes the crash dynamics. That’s why the IIHS removes all receiver hitches now before they do any rear bumper crash testing.

    Most auto manufacturers do not want any “global buckling of the frame” at speeds less than 35 mph so this leaves out the so called “crumple zones” unless you get above that speed. And of course, a lot depends on the mass of the vehicle that hits you. It might only take 15 mph if you get hit by a Hummer.

    Force goes strictly but the Kinetic Energy formula: ½ MV squared (where the velocity is squared). If you double the mass you’ll double the force. But if you double the speed you quadruple the force. In other words a 4 mph impact will generate 4 times more force than a 2 mph impact on the same vehicle. So if you hit that pole at 2 mph and then decide to try 4 mph you’re going to experience 4 times the amount of force.

    As an occupant dealing with a rear end collision you’re going to experience an instant acceleration or “change in Delta V” of 2.5 times that of the bullet vehicle. So if you’re hit at just 5 mph from the rear, you will accelerate to 12 – 13 mph – certainly enough to hurt people. That’s why it is really hard for the occupants of the target vehicle to tell how hard they were hit and most “crash experts” rarely take into consideration the receiver hitch because they hide damage.

    I would say if the hitch is not bent downward then you were probably hit at a speed less than 10 mph. If the hitch is bent downward then it’s definitely above 10 mph. If the frame has been tweeked so that the doors have a hard time opening then you’re looking at 20 mph or more. Just a general observation. But if you’ve been hit above 10 mph the least of your worries should be the vehicle.

    Insurance companies will argue that unless your vehicle is damaged there’s no way you could have been hurt. Wrong. The video mentioned shows how a vehicle can absorb a huge amount of force and not show it.

    Anyway, there are a lot of variables when dealing with rear end collisions but the force has to go somewhere and it goes directly to the occupants if there’s a direct hit on the hitch.

    Jeff

    P.S. 48% of the people that hit you in the rear are not slowing down and will hit you directly. Of the other 52%, about ½ will brake - and then hit you. Or they’ll brake and swerve to try to avoid the collision…but they still hit you. You just happened to get one that “woke up” at the last second and clipped your fender. But about 75% of the time they hit you directly. You just got one of those 25%.

    Feel free to put this on your site…video too.

  12. #12
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    Here's my thoughts on the subject...

    Bob, sorry to hear the news...

    I always leave 2-3 car lengths in front of me when stopped in traffic...drives other people NUTS!
    But about 2 years ago, I was stopped in traffic & saw a Mercedes in my rear view coming up on my precious rear end WAY too fast.
    At the last second she must have looked up, & locked up her brakes...

    As she closed in on my sweet back side, I let Suzy roll ahead about 15 feet...

    No contact was made, & for some odd reason, she seemed a little timid about catching up with me in traffic...

  13. #13
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    Yeah bolting to the frame sux. I like the hitch, and considering my wife was in the car I'm glad it was there to take the hit. but sucks that it may damage the frame...

  14. #14
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    Still I think I'd rather be twisting one cross member with the Tone hitch than all the cross members with the rail-bolted hitch.

  15. #15
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    I can understand leaving room when you're stopped, what drives me nuts is when people slam on their brakes to maintain that many car lengths when traffic comes to a sudden stop.

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