Trouble with LED Fog Lamps

[vt_maverick]

Hey guys, looking for a little help with a fog light problem. Last night I installed a pair of 25 LED lights and everything looked great. LEDs were fully illuminated with headlights, parking lights, and remote lock/unlock. This morning I drove to work with them on with no problems either.

When I left work today I clicked the fob button and immediately noticed that the driver's side lamp was about half the intensity of the passenger side. I figured maybe the LED tower was just loose so I went ahead and left for home. Then when I pulled up behind a car at the first light, I could see that the passenger side was flashing / strobing. Turning the lights on and off seemed to make no difference in either lamp, and when I click the fob the passenger side works exactly as it should. The driver's side lamp is half illuminated all the time.

I haven't disassembled the housings yet (got to get the daughter to bed first), but I thought maybe you guys could give me some ideas before I start. Btw, we've not had any rain here today so that doesn't figure to be a problem.

Help?

[jdm monkey]

Thats what happens when LEDs burn out they start to strobe and die.

[vt_maverick]

Hmmm... sounds like I need to call Autolumination then. Any thoughts on what might have gone wrong? I've never had problems installing headlight bulbs or anything, maybe they were just defective from the manufacturer?

[vt_maverick]

Just got this back from Autolumination:

Hi

One of two things may have happened:

1) they are installed directly beside something hot. Leds can't tolerate ambient temperatures over ~ 140F

2) they got too much voltage. That is the more likely of the two

There are several causes of voltage related failures on leds. Some vehicles chronically cause premature led failures. This is normally related to excess voltage, voltage spikes, high levels of AC current being generated from the alternator, or excessive ambient heat. While glass bulbs are slow to react to rapid surges, leds can be destroyed in milliseconds from a sudden spike or chronic high voltage, or excessive AC current from an alternator that has one or more burned out diodes. Additionally, led bulbs should only be used in areas where the ambient temperature is less than 150F.

If the bulbs are being used in DRL positions, especially GM DRL's, we highly recommend using only our patented 30 led SMT, 20 led tower II or 48 led SMT bulbs in combination with an led protector. If these precautions are not taken, the leds will fail prematurely in most DRL applications.

If the bulbs are being used in gauges with a dimmer, always set the dimmer to 80% or less. This minor adjustment will make the leds last ten times as long in some vehicles with chronic voltage issues.

If the bulbs are being used in an application with no dimmer, we have a new led protector that can be spliced into the + wire to protect against minor voltage surges. These work great in vehicles that have high voltage, or are prone to voltage surges. They can also help protect the leds from:

1. Switching on the ignition & starting the engine.

2. Changing or disconnecting the battery.

3. Charging the battery with an auxiliary battery charger, or revving the engine hard with a weak or dead battery.

4. Using jumper cables.

These are +$1.99 each, and can be purchased from the Load Equalizer page here :

http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm

http://superlumination.com/images/au...otector_wm.jpg

The first thing I would do is to confirm the bulbs are actually failiing by removing them from the car and testing them independent of the vehicle. That will isolate the problem

The only effective way to test the led bulb is by using two test wires connected direct to a fully charged 12 volt battery or other known 12 volt power supply. This will assure that 12 volts are reaching the led circuits.

I have a hard time believing that heat was the problem, since the lamps are more or less on the outside of the front bumper. That leaves option #2, but I have a hard time believing I have some voltage surge that apparently has never affected anything but these LEDs. Convenient (IMHO) that this reason is suggested along with an ad for something else to buy.

So it sounds like they want me to re-buy (another $22) these lights, plus a voltage regulator, and ***hope*** that it doesn't happen again. Seems like a recipe for wasting money to me. What do you guys think? And how would you suggest testing against an independent 12V source as is suggested at the end of the email? It's not like I have an electrician's workbench handy in my garage.

[VX KAT]

That leaves option #2, but I have a hard time believing I have some voltage surge that apparently has never affected anything but these LEDs. Convenient (IMHO) that this reason is suggested along with an ad for something else to buy.

So it sounds like they want me to re-buy (another $22) these lights, plus a voltage regulator, and ***hope*** that it doesn't happen again. Seems like a recipe for wasting money to me. What do you guys think? .

I don't know much about 'lectricty, that's for sure, but mine, Eric's, and at least two others, who I can't recall, all had some "new" LEDs blow/self destruct .....which only leads me to think it may be fairly common..???

I think I'd try to return the ones to autolumination (kind of insist on a credit)...and buy the $12.59 ones on ebay from "motoringmax" (w/free shipping) and give them a try....less to lose.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_7038wt_909

Another idea may be to consult Kenny...he's Mr. electric/electronics...maybe he has some input that will help.

[Grif]

I have had the same problem with one of their bulbs. I have yet to pull it to take a look but was thinking more along the lines of a short across some of the electrical leads. If you look at the LED towers, at least mine have exposed contacts on the tower itself and I was expecting to see water or corrosion or both shorting out some of the individual LED elements. If my bulb was not seated properly or there was a break in the seals, then I could see that happening and half-expected that to be the case. I have yet to confirm this however.

The theory given by autolumination doeas make sense however. If you have your bulbs on from the moment you turn your key on, then turn the key to start the vehicle, your vehicle is dropping and surging voltage pretty wildly. Stick a voltmeter across your battery terminals as you perform that action and in most vehicles you wil see approx 12v with no load, drop to as low as 10v when the starter kicks in, and then up to the nominal 14.4v when the engine starts up and revs the alternator up to speed. All that is assuming everything is functioning fairly normally. Thats a pretty wide drop then surge in whats typically 5 seconds or less.

That being said, these are being sold as automotive bulbs and SHOULD (one would think) be designed to handle surges common to automotive applications.

His test of removing the bulbs and testing them with a known good 12v power supply proves nothing except that some of the LEDS have been blown or not. His fix of inserting dimmer (a simple pot)or equalizer (prolly a simple resistor/capacitor/diode combo) does make sense if surges indeed are the problem, however it will not fix your current bulb.

If you choose to replace the bulb and not use one of his fixes, another fix would be to ensure the LED lights are not turned on as the engine is started, but that would be a relay/switch combo which could prolly be rigged using mostly existing wiring. Not sure.

[vt_maverick]

Thanks Grif, that makes a lot of sense. I didn't have the lamps on when I turned the key, so I don't think it's a surge due to that. I'm going to do my due diligence this morning and stop by Advance/Auto Zone to have them check the alternator just to make sure it's not going bad. And your thoughts on the 12V source test are what I thought too; if the bulb is already damaged, what's that going to prove?

A bit of good news (for now): when I got up this morning I pulled both bulbs, and for S&G's reversed the terminals in each lamp. It didn't do anything for the flashing LED, but for the dim LED (driver's side) it immediately returned to full illumination. I say "for now" because it was also at full illumination two nights ago when I first installed it in the reverse position.

I agree with you that no matter what an equalizer sounds like a good idea, although I'm not a fan of splicing wires to do it. I think that I'm going to write another email casting serious doubt over their excuses, then suggest that if they'll send me a replacement bulb, I'll buy one of their equalizers and pay for shipping. I figure that puts them out what, maybe $5 at most? Seems to make good business sense to me.

Has anyone had success in getting them to replace burned out bulbs at all? Just wondering what kind of push back I can expect.

[tom4bren]

Ash,

If you have a Scan Guage, set it to display the voltage. I believe that the Scan Guage will react quicker to voltage changes than any cheapo multimeter that you would use. The only issue with that though is that you won't be able to read the voltage changes during engine start. You said that you didn't turn the lights on until the VX was already running anyway.

It sounds to me as if the lights are a poor design. They should have be manufactured with pull down resistors already included.

Vehicle power is notoriously 'dirty'. Even with the voltage regulator. 24V Vehicle Power Conditioners (VPC) are common on modern military vehicles due to the amount of electronics they now run. I don't think that there are commercial 12V VPCs available though.

You can do that test that they mentioned without removing the lights from the vehicle. Just disconnect the power lead and connect it to a wire directly from the battery.

Another note: since LEDs do react much quicker to voltage changes than incandecent bulbs, it's a good idea to always solder all of the connections rather than just pigtailing & taping them.

[vt_maverick]

Unfortunately I don't have a Scan Gauge so I can't check it that way. I tend to agree with you, it sure seems like the lights are too fragile and poorly designed, which makes me think maybe I should just try for a refund instead. I'll shoot them another email this morning and see what they say.

[vt_maverick]

While this deal plays out with Autolumination, I decided to try the Malibu 18W 12V incandescent bulbs that deermagnet recommended for comparison. While I was in Home Depot I also found 18W 12V xenon bulbs of the same size / base configuration, so I picked up a set of those to try out as well.

I'll install both sets tonight and try to snap some pics for you guys to compare. Should be interesting...

[etlsport]

i have had lots of issues with bulbs in that spot! started with malibu bulbs and they were fine, but when i switched to hid headlights i wanted everything to match.

started with 1watt led bulbs from superbright LEDs. they were ok, looked decent but after month one of them went out.

i went to malibu orange bulbs, they looked pretty nice, but i wanted the white lights.

i tried xenon 921 bulbs.. they looked decent but still a little yellow for what i wanted.

i tried new housings there that looked really nice but the light was still yellow with H3 bulbs in there. tried H3 LED bulbs.. they looked awful with a clear front lens.

tried hid H3s in the new housings. the cladding started to melt

i tried 30 led towers in the stock housings. they started turning blue after 15 minutes of use and eventually one of them popped, like popcorn

i switched to 25 LED towers that looked great, didnt turn that blue, happy with them. after a couple months one of them went out!

fed up with it, i pulled the leds apart. turns out all of the LED bulbs that had gone out on me, was just one of the leads came loose from the board. i re-soldered all the bulbs i had laying around... been a a few months hassle free!

[vt_maverick]

Seems to further support the idea that these LED bulbs are pretty cheaply / poorly built. Did you try xenon bulbs?

[vt_maverick]

Oh and by the way, has anyone ever installed one of these voltage regulators/equalizers? I'm wondering if everyone's issues are related to the same underlying power "dirtiness."

[etlsport]

i installed resistors over my tail light leds when i put them in.. seemed to do pretty well.. they caused some issues on Spike's vx with his shift lock not releasing for some reason.. no problems on mine though

yea i dont think these leds bulbs are usually very well made, and im fairly certain they are all from the same company, just sold through different places. ive ordered from ebay (jdm-lighting something) autolumination and superbright LEDs. autolumination has had the best customer service by far. superbight LEDs is ok but the bulbs ive ordered from them have not fit very well in factory housings.

[vt_maverick]

Just sent them an email suggesting that they send me a new set of bulbs if I pay for the "equalizers" and shipping (shouldn't be more than $10 max). We'll see...