Pets - Reptiles

[JHarris1385]

I found a couple that I like but have not bought either yet. I think I made a thread about it if so I will post the ones I liked there and see what everyone thinks. I am currently thinking about selling my 20's and 16's, keeping the stocks and buying a set of 18's with MT's.

[nfpgasmask]

Well, I might as well add a reply here.

My Mata Mata died about 6 months ago. I still don't know exactly what happened, but most likely it was a respiratory infection. I think the climate out here in NV was simply too dry. I had the top of the tank closed up for the most part to keep as much humidity in as I could, and I probably should have had an additoinal humidifier in there as well, but the bottom line is, I failed. He went from normal to dead in under a week.

This happening only brought back the feelings that I have about keeping exotics back 10 fold. I kept a lot of herps back when I was a kid and teenager, and I got out of it for a reason. I thought now, with steady income and the "know-how" I could keep a turtle once again. It was probably a stupid idea to keep a Mata Mata in the first place, since they are pretty much on the top of the "advanced species" list right up there with Fly River Turtles, but still.

Anyway, like I said, this just makes me feel stronger about people keeping exotics and non-domesticated animals in general. And I'm not just talking about herps, but birds, fish, mammals, etc. These animals just do not belong in captivity, unless the keeper is a dedicated to its care and husbandry (like in a zoo environment), I just feel like it isn't a good idea, and certainly not fair to the creature. After I got the Mata Mata, it was less than a year before I started feeling guilty again.

And on top of the guilt, there is the whole problem of invasive species, disease, illegal trading of endangered and threatened species, pressure on wild populations, the list goes on. Basically, I just won't do it anymore. I don't want any part of the "pet trade". These are not pets, they are captive specimens. My cat is a pet, my dog is a pet. Tigers and Mata Mata turtles are not pets.

While I don't hold keepers in contempt, I just feel like its such a bad thing to do, if you really "love" and respect the animal. There's just sooooo many sad stories of neglect, improper care, and plain old failure, like in my Mata's case, that just make me feel like crap.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now. Good luck to all the keepers out there.

Bart

[CoastieCosta567]

I found a couple that I like but have not bought either yet. I think I made a thread about it if so I will post the ones I liked there and see what everyone thinks. I am currently thinking about selling my 20's and 16's, keeping the stocks and buying a set of 18's with MT's.

Nice, i'll get back with ya on that thread when u bring it up again.
I want a Iguana, i used to have one when i was younger, but i want one again.

[Triathlete]

Hey Tri, do you have picture of your set up? I let mine go when he got about that size.

What food do you use?

Do you have issues with keeping the water clear? That was my biggest battle.

No good pics but basically I have a 20 gal. long aquarium (for now until he out grows it), natural gravel and rocks, a floating "dock" for sunning, a screen type cover, a regular aquarium light, a sun lamp, 2 filters...a zoo med 318 in tank and a zoo med 501 canister filter. As far as food my red ear is not to picky. I give him pellet food, shrimp, and occasionally fresh veggies. After doing some reading on the subject of keeping the water clear that a key "ingredient" is to change out the charcoal often. The dirty water is caused by the build up of ammonia which the charcoal absorbs...I still need to do a water change out every 2-3 weeks though...it's just the nature of the beast.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

Anyway, like I said, this just makes me feel stronger about people keeping exotics and non-domesticated animals in general. And I'm not just talking about herps, but birds, fish, mammals, etc. These animals just do not belong in captivity, unless the keeper is a dedicated to its care and husbandry (like in a zoo environment), I just feel like it isn't a good idea, and certainly not fair to the creature. After I got the Mata Mata, it was less than a year before I started feeling guilty again.

And on top of the guilt, there is the whole problem of invasive species, disease, illegal trading of endangered and threatened species, pressure on wild populations, the list goes on. Basically, I just won't do it anymore. I don't want any part of the "pet trade". These are not pets, they are captive specimens. My cat is a pet, my dog is a pet. Tigers and Mata Mata turtles are not pets.

While I don't hold keepers in contempt, I just feel like its such a bad thing to do, if you really "love" and respect the animal. There's just sooooo many sad stories of neglect, improper care, and plain old failure, like in my Mata's case, that just make me feel like crap.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now. Good luck to all the keepers out there.

Bart

I agree with you to the nth degree, Bart! Especially once my Bearded Dragon didn't take well to moving to Chicago and passed away. In my efforts to do some good after his death, I adopted 2 more Beardies in desperate need of a good home. Their living conditions were so sad, I won't even go into detail about that. But here is a little about them after I rescued them...

It started with Ozzy and Sharon... who couldn't get enough of each other from the start.



Little did I know that Sharon had a surprise waiting... 22 eggs were laid. Being my first clutch, I didn't expect any survivors...


I was wrong... 11 hatched! And all that hatched survived! The one on the far left was the first born and the runt of the clutch.


Here's a good size comparison...Father and his first born...


After the eggs were laid, I adopted Sharon to a herp expert in Michigan because I didn't have space for 13 Beardies. She even has an alligator! I adopted all the babies out and kept Ozzy. He roams around in his 100 gallon terrarium all to himself. He is so spoiled. I don't think I will take any more reptiles in after he is gone though, because I do feel the same as Bart. This isn't where they belong.

[VXIRONwoMAN]

For those that have good eaters...

I buy all my live food from www.premiumcrickets.com They have great prices, and give quality product. I have bought crickets, butter worms, phoenix worms, and super worms from them. I have always been happy with them and so has Ozzy. It's waaaay cheaper than getting them from the local pet shop.

Just a suggestion...

[JHarris1385]

Tri - just found this link on Tortoise/Turtle forum. http://www.turtlepuddle.org/health/s...nk_filter.html

This is what I am doing. My Map is not large...and has a 55gallon. Loves it but meanwhile is living in a smaller one till I re-do it.

[Triathlete]

Just snapped some shots of my tank...
As said before, it is a 20 long






Lights


The ZooMed 501


Floating sun deck


In tank filter (ZooMed 318) and inlet/outlet's for the 501


And Tortie enjoying the sun

[Osteomata]

And another Red Ear Slider tank, for Bombay and Princess Sinda.
40G tank, natural cork above waterline background, white sand bottom, Eheim cannister filter, creeping fig plants growing so well they are running up the wall behind the tank, good amount of driftwood, full daylight spectrum fluorescent lamp in front, double heat lamp in back, sunning platforms on both the right and left sides. The turtles are about six years old, this is their third tank (10G, 20G, now 40G), I will be shifting them to a custom designed 90G next.

[JHarris1385]

Here is my inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/user/BauriBob#p/u/10/dYB_ftul1CI
He has a lot of other great videos as well.

I can't wait to get my 55g set up how I want it to be before I put him back in there. I have decided to upgrade to a canister filter - Cascade 1000: http://www.amazon.com/Canister-Aquar...9436988&sr=8-1

I have heard very good reviews from this filter and then I asked my pet shop owner family friend and he even recommended it. So I will replaced my power filters and internals with this. And just in case, I have decided against the UG filter and will only use this, with A LOT more plants. The rule is 10g per inch of shell at minimum, even with that I think he will soon get a 125 up from his current 55...but we shall see.

Here is the next basking platform I am getting....http://www.amazon.com/Reptology%C2%A...9437163&sr=8-1

I have the docks like you two have and a suction cup one as well, but something about this one I really like.

Do you feed yours goldfish or anything else? I have to admit, when my RES was about 8'' or so, he was introduced to a few new foods like hot dog chunks and etc. He loved it and was an eating machine.





.....Side note as far as keeping pets.
I agree with you Nfp. I think you should duplicate the natural environment as much as you can, but even then it is still not truly as good as their real habitat and never will be. As much as I love them as pets, I also think that I am doing something wrong by having anything like this in captivity. But then in reality I personally and anyone else I could convince could never stop the world pet trade and it is much better to have passionate and caring owners out there than abusive/destructive..etc. Kinda of like the saying, if you can't beat them join them. On that note all I can hope to do is spread awareness and hope it teaches others how to truly care for their pets especially exotics.

..For instance with tortoises, I would not buy one from a pet store for many reasons; but then again, would buying one from the pet store in the end provide it a better life then what is destined for it if it does not sell and is subject to shelf life? It is almost a non-winning situation either way you look at it and is far more complexed and non linear than what we all can initially see on the surface. What I can tell myself, is that there is a GREAT probability that I am providing my map turtle a better life than what he may have experienced elsewhere. I could and I am sure we all could, go on for days about this issue, but as long as we are providing great care we will always surpass the life the animal could have been subject to elsewhere.

...I am sorry to hear about your matamata, such a great creature and I truly enjoyed your video of it eating. Some possible relief, we would never know how long its life would have been in the wild with all the natural predators present that were not in your tank.

[wekilled]

I just feel like its such a bad thing to do, if you really "love" and respect the animal.

Not sure if I agree (completely). I don't think exotic pet ownership corners the market on pet neglect and encouragement of the equivalent of puppy mills. I agree that many people get exotics for the wrong reason ie. because they are "cool." Similar to some (again not all) 18 year olds who buy pit bulls just to impress their friends. Lots of domestic animal owners out there who abuse the crap out of their pets or buy them for the wrong reasons. I have family that feel the need to own horses but can barely take care of themselves..

My beardie was a neglected rescue born in captivity, so not sure what the alternative would be, (release into the suburban neighborhood or euthanasia are the only two choices that come to mind.) I have been raising reptiles since my teens, and will continue to only raise what I can care for physically or with regard to my own knowledge base.

Right or wrong, the fact remains there will always be a market for such animals and unfortunately, there is no minimal licensing (which there should be) for potential ownership of such pets. If the domesticated piece rather than care is the issue I think there is a spectrum of levels of domesticity- (versus domesticated or non) I wouldn't own an alligator, but our beardy she just thinks she's one of our dogs.

Anyway, not trying to take any personal stabs on anyone, and email does a really poor job of conveying tone. I basically agree with the overall intent, just think its less of an all or nothing deal.

[JHarris1385]

Yes it is hard to express your tone in typing....I edited mine a few times typing it because I could not figure how it may be taken. I will always own something, and I will always provide it the best possible life. I don't think any part of the pet trade will ever be stopped or altered, so might as well have more caring owners.


+++But I also don't want this thread to turn into a discussion solely on that topic. For that reason I almost did not post what I had to say.

[VX KAT]

OMG! I've got myself two little lizards!
OK, who are you and what have you done with VX KAT?

We caught these two outside on our walls, to keep my dog from eating them. I've been trying to ID them, but no luck.
Can some of you herp lovers help me figure out what they are?

So here's the adventures of Ziggy & Marley:

? Both are about 2" long + tail.

? I've had the larger one (Ziggy) for 10 weeks now, the other one (Marley) for about 3-4 weeks.

? The first one has grown a bit, even shed his skin this week. Can still see some old scales on his left rear leg. Cool!

? The smaller one has two bright parallel streaks of TEAL BLUE down the length of his stomach.

? Both are eating crickets very nicely! I dust the crickets with calcium 2x/week, plus put a drop in their water.


? Based on all the info I've read, I need to determine:
WHAT TYPE OF LIZARD so I know what temperature range they need.

? I've been basically assuming they fall in the "desert" category since our temps range from 20-30 low to 95 high. So they're surviving somehow in this colder weather. Our humidity is so low, I just didn't think they'd be considered "tropical".

? Just got my 2nd enclosure (larger) (this hobby is kind of addictive as well as FUN...I've been buying all kinds of stuff the last 2 weeks....lights, domes, stands, screen tops, digital temp gauge with remote sensor and a stick-on temp gauge)

? Also got the Reptisand as a substrate now instead of just rocks from outside. It has calcium in it too. Unfortunately, it seems to really stick and/or color them.....so the purple or orange cast on the lizards is from the sand.

? The bigger one now burrows into the sand for the night time.

? Both are basking on the big rock under the infared bulb.


? Got the lights all set up now too:

? UVB 10.0 CFL bulb (which also gives UVA)
? 50W infared
? 75W infared as the winter temps in my den here they'll need a little more heat.

? Been doing all kinds of temperature testing with the lights in different configurations:

? When both the UVB CFL and 75w infared are on, temp got up to 92 within 12 mins.
? With UVB and 50w infared, up to 88.5
? Both are much more active when I got the temp up around 84
? Both were hyperactive when temp was around 90 so I felt that was too hot, immediately switched to the 50w bulb.
? Now temps average around 84 - 88

[nfpgasmask]

Damn, Kat, you must be as fast as a cat to catch those!!

Those look like Southwestern Fence Lizards to me (Sceloporus cowlesi). Should be easy to care for, give water, and crickets dusted with calcium supplements for reptiles. They should take meal works, earth worms and just about any insect they can fit in their mouths as well.

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

A closer look at your pics tells me you might have two different species there. Interesting.

Here some links to help you ID them:
http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-...s-cowlesi.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-...-virgatus.html

http://www.reptilesofaz.org/Lizards-...graciosus.html

Bart