Electrical question/problem - HELP!

[Raque Thomas]

I originally posted under rear door popper - but I think like someone said - everybody is pooped on poppers. My question is electrical though - I used directions that were posted to hook up the popper to work with my remote by hooking into the relay in the left kick panel. The remote now opens both doors on the first press, and the rear hatch on the second press. However, if I push the power lock button on the doors, the doors unlock AND the hatch opens - and if I press the remote hatch release button, it opens the hatch but blows the in-line fuse.

Of course the problem is that by hooking in the door lock system, I'm sending power both ways, allowing the hatch to open whenever the power door lock button is pressed, and the remote hatch switch probably doesn't have a high enough wattage fuse to operate all the locks - BUT I REALLY want the hatch to open remotely - anybody have any ideas how to solve this with a relay or some other means??

[Tone]

You need a diode to prevent current from flowing the wrong direction.

[Raque Thomas]

Tone, one question on that - the way that I want the current to flow (from the relay to my popper, to work with the remote) is the same way that current would flow from the door switches to the popper - right? Seems that a one way diode would solve my problem of the remote popper switch blowing a fuse & trying to open the doors, but still allow the trunk to open with the door switches??????? I don't pretend to know anything about electrical devices other than simple wiring hook-ups - so I APPRECIATE your help on this, and your patience!

BTW, your popper works great, and is a quality item!

[omegavx]

I know you said you tied into the wiring on the left kick, but the original comments said you should tie in to the wires behind the right kick. Is it possible that tieing into the right kick area already has the necessary wiring to prevent blowing of the fuse and or releaseing the trunk on unlocking the doors?

I have the contact info for the original guy that did this and provided the original diagram, I just havn't had time to contact him as of yet.

[Raque Thomas]

OmegaVX - yeh the instructions said the relay was in the right kick panel (as did the workshop CD I have) - but it's not there, it's behind the left kick panel (at least on mine). There's nothing like that ANYWHERE on the right side of the car - I tore out half the car looking for it before I decided to go to the other side. If you could contact the guy who did this originally - that would be great!

[omegavx]

I contacted him, I'll post his reply as soon as it comes in. BTW, any chance you can take a couple of pics of how you wired both the popper and the fob connection and post them?

[Raque Thomas]

just had a thought - seeme to me I need to isolate that relay from the rest of the door lock circuit, and wire the two door locks together since I want them to unlock together anyway. I'll also need the diode Tone mentioned to keep the current going only in one direction. I'll give this a try tomorrow and let you know how it goes. If anyone has any thoughts - please chime in

[omegavx]

Ok, so I got a response from Gary. I'll place it at the bottom of this post.

My thoughts on his response, it sounds like he had the same problem you are having (ie: when you unlock the doors it also pop's the trunk) His solution was to wire the safety interlock to the solenoid like you should, then you can't pop the trunk while in drive. You would have to be in park for it to fire. Maybe if we can find the wire that ties the door console into both doors we could rewire it at that location. (ie: instead of splicing the wires out at the actual relay find the controller box, if there is one, hook both doors to the first click, hook the solenoid to the second click and hook the door console to the first click) That way, the console would fire just like a first click on the fob instead of like a second click on the fob.

I'm in the same boat as you, I can pretty much rewire things. But, I'm really a wiring newb when it comes to cars. So, I guess I better stock up on fuses before I start messing around
------------------------------
Gary's Response 1
------------------------------
It's not real simple, but I'll be glad to detail it to you when I get a few
minutes. And, just so you know, if you buy the garage door opener module
from Isuzu for $100, it could be wired easily to control a popper from the
"option" button on the factory remote. I wanted to do that, everyone I
talked to said "no way" including Isuzu factory people, so I did it my way
(2nd press of main button). After I did it my way, then I ordered the garage
door opener when I had a spare $100, just to check it out, and found out it
works on a 120V house current to 12v DC transformer. And all it does is
complete a two wire circuit. So, if I had it to do over (and didn't care
about the garage door opener aspect-which is pretty neat if you have a
dedicated garage for the Isuzu like I do- would be to wire the module as a
ground control on the primary side of a relay, with the secondary side
controlling the high amp current directly to the door opener solenoid. And
power the module with 12V from the vehicle, and throw the transformer away.
Thanks,
Gary Bucklew

------------------------------
Gary's Response 2
------------------------------
The thread you linked me to provides virtually all the details, although
it's pieced together from several posts. Do you have a specific question?
It's true, the down side of my method is that if in neutral or park, if
someone hits the "unlock" switch on the door panels (either one), the hatch
will pop. But 1) if both doors unlock off first press, and they do and 2) if
you wire the safety interlock to the shifter (as you should), there is
really no problem. I did this two years ago, and have only accidentally
unlocked the hatch a couple times, both while dead stopped. And I think it's
convienent to have a switch to pop the hatch in both doors-I use it all the
time loading and unloading my greyhound from the hatch.
Just some info.
Thanks,
Gary Bucklew

[Raque Thomas]

Jay, thanks for the info - I hadn't thought about doing the interlock connection, that would prevent on-the-road disasters with someone accidently openning the hatch at 70mph

I'm still working on another solution, had my brother-in-law (electrical engineer) look at the schematic last night and he agrees with me - in theory - that isolating the two would do the trick. He didn't have a lot of time, so he's going to look at it today more and get gack to me. I'll let everyone know what I find out.

[johnnyapollo]

I've uploaded the entire image diagram that Gary sent me:

http://wildtoys.com/vehicross/VehicrossAlarmDiag.jpg

It's pretty big. You may be able to right mouse click and use the save as dialog to download.

-- Best, John

[omegavx]

Hey raquethomas, can you take a look at the alarm diagram John just posted and modify it to display how you currently have yours rewired. I'm one of those people that thrives on visual input I'm guessing you spliced the two LT GRN/BLK wires together and then wired your solenoid to the bottom LT GRN/BLK wire. But, if you could actually modify the diagram to show what' you've done maybe we can come up with a working diagram of where we are going.

Glad you have somone to turn to when it comes to electrical stuff like this. Here are the latest responses from Gary
--------------------------
Questions
--------------------------
1. Did you connect in behind the right or left kick? The diagram said the
right kick, but another guy is currently trying this and could only find
the relay on the left kick. I know I saw 3 or 4 relays on the left kick,
but havn't checked the right yet.

2. Any chance you can take a pic and send it to me of where you hooked in?
(ie: which relay etc.)

3. Did you try locating the "door console" wires? I'd imagine that the
"door console" could be rewired so it only connects to the single fob
click which would then unlock both doors and not pop the rear door .
--------------------------
Responses
--------------------------
1) The passenger door inhibit relay is definitely in the driver's kick
panel,
2) I don't have my Vehicross here today, but the best way to identify the
relay is by wire colors i.e. the wiring diagram online
3) I've done automotive electronics for a living for 20 years, I studied the
wiring diagram for hours, so did my techs, we couldn't figure out a way to
retain full factory function on the door locks and still make the popper
work. I'm sure it could be done with solid state devices, but I didn't want
to risk reliability problems with high current draw devices (i.e. fire risk)

[Raque Thomas]

Omega - along with being electrically challenged - I'm computer challenged as well! Don't know how to modify his diagram (couldn't even pull it up ) But I'll describe to you what I did, and what I'm thinking of doing. If you have a wiring diagram for the VX, it should be easy to follow:

Starting at the fuse block, I wired in the hot wire to go to the remote button in the glove box. On the other side of this switch, the lead goes out and behind the dash, then down the driver's side under the scuff panel and behind the rear side panels to the gate. Then through the rubber boot to the solenoid in the door. That's the easy part per Tone's instructions. Here's the mod:

Where the wire from the remote switch passes the relay behind the left kick panel, I spliced into it and hooked it into the relay on the side that actuates on the second press of the remote button. I took the lt grn/blk wire that was originally attached here and spliced it into the other lt grn/blk wire that was going into the relay.

From looking at the wiring diagram, it appears to me (but remember, I'm "challenged") that the relay works like this: power is fed to the relay constantly by a lt grn/wht wire, when you press the remote button, power is sent along an orange wire from the anti-theft processor to that relay, making a connection between the always hot lt grn/wht wire and the first lt grn/blk wire to open the drivers door. A second pulse through the orange wire, trips the relay to the second postion, openning the pass door (or popper in my case).

I'm certain that the problem is that current is naturally flowing both ways through all these wires when the various buttons and remotes are used, causing my problems. A simple diode alone to regulate the flow of electricity in only one direction won't do the trick, because pressing one of the door switches will send voltage back through that relay the same direction as the remote needs to and pop the trunk as it does now.

Here are my two thoughts (both untried and unendorsed so far by my brother-in-law mentioned in an above post):
1) Cut both lt grn/blk wires off the relay and attach them to the orange wire going into the relay, I think this would allow them to both intercept the "pulse" along the orange wire and unlock. This would still require a diode on the lt grn/blk wires before they intercept the orange wire, so as not to send current backwards through the relay when the door switch is pressed.
2) Buy another relay, hook up the lt grn/wht power wire and the orange pulse wire to both (with a diode to prevent backwards power flow), and hook the popper to the second press outlet of the second relay. The first relay would remain in place and both doors would be attached to the first press outlet of that relay.

Number two sounds more workable to me right now - I'm trying to get a second relay to try it out.

[omegavx]

quick question, does the popper fire when you "lock" the doors on the "door console"?

Now, I think I understand what your saying. I'm definatlly with you on being electrically challenged, but I am very computer literate, specifically internet literate (btw, I can fax you a copy of the diagram if you have access to a fax machine just pm the number). Here are my thoughts, when I look at the wire diagram there is a "UNLOCK" RED/BLK wire coming from the "ANTI-Theft & Keyless entry control unit" From here it hooks into the "UNLOCK" RED/BLK coming from the driver side "door console". Assuming this wire is what actually activates a unlock when you depress the key fob either once or twice, then wouldn't the following work.

1. Cut both LT GRN/BLK wires from the relay and splice them together.

2. hook the solenoid to the original actuator GRN/BLK wire on the relay (shown as the bottom GRN/BLK wire on the diagram)

3. hook a new wire onto the "UNLOCK" RED/BLK wire coming from the "ANTI-Theft & Keyless entry control unit" and connect it to the other cut LT GRN/BLK wire on the relay (shown as the top GRN/BLK wire on the diagram)

You'd probably need to make sure and put a diode on this new wire so the keyless fob click only went to the relay. Ofcourse I'm not sure about this since I'm not positive a diode is what is needed.

So, Following these steps you would basically be removing the "door console" completely from the relay and tieing the keyless fob directly into the relay. And since the relay is already setup to only fire on a second click you shouldn't have to mess with the ORG wire.

This ofcourse assumes that the "UNLOCK" RED/BLK wire from the "Anti-theft & keyless control unit" is what actually sends the power to unlock the doors on a fob press.

[omegavx]

Here's what gary had to say about my above comments.

Hey raquesthomas, somthing that might help you out, is that he said he did use a "relay with a clamping diode inside", maybe thats why he isn't blowing fuses and you were. Also, has your brother in law had time to take a look yet?

-------------------
Gary's Message
-------------------
You're going through the exact mental gymnastics I did. And your solution
seems so simple.I thought so, too, till I looked closer.

Problem is, the passenger door control relay is a normally CLOSED relay,
and the system inhibits the passenger door unlock (first press of the fob
button) by OPENING the secondary contacts of the relay. Wiring it your way
would result in constant power to the unlock solenoid. So, the only solution
is to use the pulse signal from the Left Front Door Power Window and Lock
Switch as the secondary power supply to the relay. And live with the door
unlock switches popping the hatch.
You're right, you need to splice the two light grn/black wires together, but
you have to keep the supply side wire (top one in the diagram) connected to
the relay and use the bottom wire (cut end closest the relay) to supplyrelay with a clamping diode inside,
power to your popper relay.
That's how I did it, anyway. I couldn't figure a better way, at all. And I
did it without isolation diodes, and haven't had any problems. I used a
though, to prevent spikes on the primary
side from reaching the solid state window and lock switch.
Good Luck, Gary

[Raque Thomas]

My brother-in-law still hasn't gotten back with me, so I went to Radio Shack to buy a couple of diodes to try a third thought I had on this (I've spent WAY to much time thinking about this). Anyway, the trip to RS was fruitless, they don't know diode from a cheeseburger - couldn't give me ANY advice and didn't even know what a diode did. They had about 20 different ones, so I was lost. Headed down the street to an electronics place that is actually hands on - closed on Mondays Anyway, I'll try again tomorrow, surely betwenn one of the three things I've come up with SOMETHING will work! If not, I'll just wire it into the shifter so it can't be popped at 60 mph, like Gary suggested. Thanks for the help OmegaVX! Sometimes just having someone interested that you can bounce ideas off helps you get through it!