It's 10 PM, do you know where your spring helpers are?

[blacksambo]

Also, 2000's mostly ran 18" tires not 16's, with likely no different spring for the 2000 model. Besides, what's a half an inch once a 4000 lb vehicle starts moving, that small difference is likely lost and they touch.

[blacksambo]

yes. Keep in mind the vehicle in motion will dynamically take up the small spring helper/axel gap. When I just looked very closely at my high mileage '99 VX the gap was indeed there, but only about 1/2 inch. This will close with speed and the resultant down force applied by air and motion. Thus, it creates an insulating effect by preventing metal to metal contact in the spring and shock body to frame set up area.

[Bob Barker]

I've got about 4" of space between my spring helpers/bump stops... but dont ever notice any vibrations, and can't rememer last time I bottomed out the rear axle... So I think everyone should just lift their VX's!

[blacksambo]

Right Bob."The Price is Right". Lift or suffer the doom of forever living with the weird influence of spring helpers. A fate worse than d______".

[LittleBeast]

I've got about 4" of space between my spring helpers/bump stops... but dont ever notice any vibrations, and can't rememer last time I bottomed out the rear axle... So I think everyone should just lift their VX's!

Me too!!!!! Although since this picture I added the 2" square tube spacers so they are about 1" closer now. I was preparing for the 35" tires going on as soon as my current 33's need replacing ;-)


On the left is the 2" spring spacer from Independent 4x and on the right is the stock spring spacer that sits on top of the springs and prevents metal spring to metal body contact.

[LittleBeast]

They don't really limit upward wheel travel as my higher mileage Vx demostrated,.....

What? Haha, you are not trying hard enough! ;-)


Here is a shot of me testing out the new extended bumpstops. At this time they were about 2" lower than the stock bumpstops. As you can see without this extra 2" down my tire would be eating up (rubbing) the cladding just above it. Since this picture I have added another 1" to the bumstops (2" square tube extensions) to prepare for the 35" tires. If you want me to take a closeup picture of the bumpstop from the undercarriage preventing rubbing I can?

Here is the new extended bumpstops before I took off the stock mount and added the 2" square tube spacer instead:

Here is the modified stock mount with old bumpstop cut off and new larger bumstop installed, once again this was before the 2" square tube extension was added:

This is the front stock bumpstop (black) and the ultra low profile bumpstop upgrade which actually increases DOWNTRAVEL it stops the a-arm from going down too low, the oposite of the rear bumpstops.

Picture of the ultra low profile bumpstop installed, it is the red round thing:

After installing this new lower profile front bumpstop and doing the ball joint flip I added an inch or two of downtravel and now the a-arms touch the mounting bolts on the front cross member about the same time as the low profile bumpstops. I am looking at getting some more narrow bolts for the front cross member once I install the modified cross member I just got in the mail from Joe so that those bolts no longer limit down travel. Then I just need the ball joint spacer from independent 4x and the torsion bar suspension travel upgrade and the VX will be maxed out for front wheel.

[LittleBeast]

Bumpstops in action saving my tires and wheel wells again:

Here is the a-arm contacting the bolts on the cross member (after ball joint flip and lower profile bumpstops installed):

In this photo you can see the a-arm upper bumpstops that Kat mentioned that limit up travel and soften bottoming out in the front, also note that the a-arms are not close to contacting cross member bolts, this is before ball joint flip and lower profile bumstops:

In this photo the low profile front bumpstop has been installed and you can see the plate it contacts with on down travel just below it, but I have not done the ball joint flip in this photo yet:

Ball joint flip done:

Before and after of suspension down travel with ball joint flip and lower profile bumpstops on front. Hard to tell from the angle of the photos but I gained between 1-2", it was a very noticeable difference especially when looking at the a-arm to cross member bolt change:

[Bob Barker]

[technocoy]

I think this is a matter of a lot of VXs across years and different types of use and driving style causing inconsistency. My bump stops (VX) are at least two inches from my axle and every other 4x4 truck I've had (3) have been even further apart from the bump stop. Traditionally they are meant to stop frame/axle damage when used during heavy towing or offroading, etc.

Judging by the fact that those who have trimmed theirs to 1/2 their previous height are getting LESS bottoming out and a smoother ride, I'd have to say if someone is resting on there's and CERTAINLY bottoming out a lot on one that doesn't have them at all you definitely need to get your springs/shocks checked.

We've had folks on here who's factory shocks freakishly went at less than 30,000 miles, so just because it's sitting that way on a low mileage VX doesn't mean that's the way it's supposed to.

They are also further apart on my 89 Amigo and my Friends two door trooper. I think if anything it would have been an oversight in engineering with a short run vehicle than a new standard of suspension set-ups.

Then again, I've been wrong before. I was 7, but it DID happen ;-) I KEED I KEED.

[blacksambo]

I think this is a matter of a lot of VXs across years and different types of use and driving style causing inconsistency. My bump stops (VX) are at least two inches from my axle and every other 4x4 truck I've had (3) have been even further apart from the bump stop. Traditionally they are meant to stop frame/axle damage when used during heavy towing or offroading, etc.

Judging by the fact that those who have trimmed theirs to 1/2 their previous height are getting LESS bottoming out and a smoother ride, I'd have to say if someone is resting on there's and CERTAINLY bottoming out a lot on one that doesn't have them at all you definitely need to get your springs/shocks checked.

We've had folks on here who's factory shocks freakishly went at less than 30,000 miles, so just because it's sitting that way on a low mileage VX doesn't mean that's the way it's supposed to.

They are also further apart on my 89 Amigo and my Friends two door trooper. I think if anything it would have been an oversight in engineering with a short run vehicle than a new standard of suspension set-ups.

Then again, I've been wrong before. I was 7, but it DID happen ;-) I KEED I KEED.

The VX did indeed set a new standard for suspension set ups. That's what it's all about, with the monotube shocks. If you're not using your spring helpers all the time you will have a noisy ride by virtue of the direct contact between the shocks and springs to the body and frame, there would simply be no insulation factor without the spring helpers. My VX is the case in point, once the spring helpers were installed the ride smoothness increased and the noise level went way down.

[Ldub]

If you're not using your spring helpers all the time you will have a noisy ride by virtue of the direct contact between the shocks and springs to the body and frame, there would simply be no insulation factor without the spring helpers.

...the rest of the points you've made up until now are at least debatable, with a great many sticking points attributable to possible discrepancies in nomenclature.

But there is no "direct contact" between the springs/shocks & the frame, there are rubber spring isolators between the springs & frame, & every shock absorber I've ever seen has bushings in both ends.

But if what you've done is working for you...

[blacksambo]

[QUOTE=Ldub;227828]...the rest of the points you've made up until now are at least debatable, with a great many sticking points attributable to possible discrepancies in nomenclature.

But there is no "direct contact" between the springs/shocks & the frame, there are rubber spring isolators between the springs & frame, & every shock absorber I've ever seen has bushings in both ends.

But if what you've done is working for you. The shock and spring are transmitters between the body and frame unless something mitagates...thus the addition of the spring helpers. It's the meat in the sandwhich.

[blacksambo]

This ia all very nice discussion, but the fact remains the VX did things very differently "by design". We are applying conventional suspension science to a vehicle that defys all that logic. As recalled with the Eldorado stability control, and if you can recall how Detroit inexpensively solved the traditional V-Eight balancing problem (a pulley with rubber bushing integrated...a la harmonic balancer etc.) the VX wanted to offer a new ride sensation for a pretty tall tipsy body (remember the Troooper / Consumer Reports fiasco), thus the invention of the spring helper or the redeployment of the bump stop to address a new issue ....sound level and body roll, by keeping it engaged in the coil and shock motion mix. Believe me it works well with monotube shocks, both with sound and anti -roll resistence. If they wanted a bump stop it wouldn't hover above the axel and would have been called a stop like it is on the front suspension. It's a whole new job it performs.

[LittleBeast]

Mr. Fist, meet Miss Palm.....

Trust me I know what you are saying, but riding on your bumpstops causes a very rough ride compared to not riding on your bumpstops. Riding on your bumpstops dramatically increases the force required for compression, and thus if you are riding on your bumpstops your ride will actually be rougher, hence when people's suspensions sag over time because of components (shocks/springs) wearing out, the quickest fix for a softer ride would be to cut the bumpstops shorter so that you would no longer be riding on the more stiff bumpstops, or get longer springs or a spring spacer to not ride on the more stiff bumpstops.

Basically the more things you put between the tires and yourself the more stiff the suspension will be. If I just have shocks this is VERY soft, then when the springs get involved it becomes more stiff, but then you add a bumpstop in the way and it becomes even stiffer. Basically the more meat in the sandwich the more you will feel in your pants :-) Just ask any low rider who is riding on his bumpstops how soft his ride is ;-)

There are actually charts to tell you how much more force is needed to compress a suspension when the bumpstops make contact, many bumpstops are known to increase the stiffness of the suspension by well over 1,000 lbs during cornering, this is important to know for racers who do not need to be surprised by their suspension all of a sudden becoming much more stiff once the bumpstops make contact.

[blacksambo]

While I agree with the traditional science you are giving here the first use of montube shocks may have neccessitated a new inexpensive solution to deliver a more roll resistant ride. As the VX does not begin to really press the spring helper into action until the slower-moving ultra stiff shocks and coil spring begin to emote dynamic force on them. All I'm proposing is that this is a new system of vehicle behavior, especially in conjunction with the introduction of full-time torque on demand. It's a whole new pitch and yawl situation the engineers are dealing with. At any rate you have to agree that the close proximity of the spring helper to the axel is a little bit unusual, to say the least, and there needs to be a reason for that. Bump stop duty alone just doesn't seem to be reason enough.