Suggestions for LED Turn Signal Rapid Flash?

[vt_maverick]

Did some searching but couldn't find anything readily at hand... Billy and I attempted to convert my front and rear turn signals to LEDs this weekend with mixed results. I bought (4) bulbs and (4) 6 Ohm resistor / load balancers from V-LEDs for the install. We did the rear signals first (one bulb + one resistor for each signal) and they worked great (normal bulbs were still up front at this point). But when we did the same for the front, both front AND back started blinking fast. For S&G's we removed the resistors up front and left the LEDs in and still had the fast blink. But when we put the regular bulb back (resistors in place or not) the rear LEDs went back to normal.

Ideas?

P.S. I am VASTLY more impressed with V-LED's products vs. those of Autolumination. From packaging to bulbs to resistors V-LED's products are obviously much higher quality. I think I'm done with Autolumination...

[WillyLin]

you will need to change the flasher relay to get the right flash on these LED bulbs, The flasher relay uses the bulbs' current to trigger each flashes, and the LED bulbs draw sooooo much less current compare to the regular bulb. LED are like 0.4 amp vs. 2 amp. you can go ebay and find a LED flasher for like $5 shipped from china ( downside is it'll take a week or 10 days to arrive.)

[WillyLin]

or another way to do is to get a 10W resistor that would draw more current so that flasher relay would flash normally, but then it'll lose the meaning using LED becuase you are using about the same power as the regular bulb.

[Grif]

WillyLin is correct. The flasher relay gets tripped to flash at a certain current draw. With LED lights your drawing a lot less current so the flasher relay (we called them blinker fuses back in the day, but its not really a fuse) does not get tripped and hence does not blink correctly.

A resistor might could work to shunt off current giving the circuit a higher load. The value of the resistor used would be guesswork on my part, but you would want it between the ground and the positive lead so that when the circuit gets juice, a portion of it gets grounded off before it hits the LED, increasing the current draw and tripping the flasher unit. This will negate the power consumption benefit of having LED's, but should work.

The better way, as WillyLin indicated would be to replace the blinker relay with one that trips on/off with a much lower current flow.

Interesting problem, never really thought about it before. But I'm sure thats the prob.

[PK]

Sounds like its time to change the blinker fluid.

Can you guys get the new synthetic stuff over there??

PK

[Grif]

Sounds like its time to change the blinker fluid.

Can you guys get the new synthetic stuff over there??

PK

I was going to suggest checking the blinker fluid, but the USA models don't have blinker fluid dipsticks and are sealed systems not intended to be serviced.

[LittleBeast]

V-LEDs has all the answers in the world to this problem on their website. Sounds like you did not install the resistors correctly, this happened to me the first time I installed resistors because I was trusting the wire splicer things you clamp down and they were not making good contact. Make sure the resistor is not simply in line but actually goes from + over to - ON THE TURN SIGNAL + wire and NOT the brake light +, and make sure it is making a good connection with the touchy wire splicers you probably used.

Or a MUCH BETTER FIX FOR THIS.... You can simply take apart the stock flasher and grind down one metal wire and make it flash fine with less watts than normal. The thinner the piece of metal is the less watts needed to flash without the annoying quick flash. Once again all these intructions are on the V-LEDs website, or on their Facebook page or just search online.

Here is one such article to get you started:
http://vleds.wordpress.com/2010/12/0...k-with-v-leds/

[yellowgizmo99]

I soldered the resistor in line with the ground on the turn signal, same as with the rear set up, when we put one of the regular bulbs in just to check it out the bulb hardly came on. Guess will look up on their site to see what else.

[vt_maverick]

you will need to change the flasher relay to get the right flash on these LED bulbs, The flasher relay uses the bulbs' current to trigger each flashes, and the LED bulbs draw sooooo much less current compare to the regular bulb. LED are like 0.4 amp vs. 2 amp. you can go ebay and find a LED flasher for like $5 shipped from china ( downside is it'll take a week or 10 days to arrive.)

or another way to do is to get a 10W resistor that would draw more current so that flasher relay would flash normally, but then it'll lose the meaning using LED becuase you are using about the same power as the regular bulb.

WillyLin is correct. The flasher relay gets tripped to flash at a certain current draw. With LED lights your drawing a lot less current so the flasher relay (we called them blinker fuses back in the day, but its not really a fuse) does not get tripped and hence does not blink correctly.

A resistor might could work to shunt off current giving the circuit a higher load. The value of the resistor used would be guesswork on my part, but you would want it between the ground and the positive lead so that when the circuit gets juice, a portion of it gets grounded off before it hits the LED, increasing the current draw and tripping the flasher unit. This will negate the power consumption benefit of having LED's, but should work.

The better way, as WillyLin indicated would be to replace the blinker relay with one that trips on/off with a much lower current flow.

Interesting problem, never really thought about it before. But I'm sure thats the prob.

Guys - This is what the resistors / load equalizers we installed are supposed to do, per V-LED's website. I even bought the bigger, badder 6 Ohm 50 Watt resistors:

6 OHM 50W 2 BULB LED LOAD EQUALIZER RESISTORS TURN SIGNAL BLINKER FIX

V-LEDs has all the answers in the world to this problem on their website. Sounds like you did not install the resistors correctly, this happened to me the first time I installed resistors because I was trusting the wire splicer things you clamp down and they were not making good contact. Make sure the resistor is not simply in line but actually goes from + over to - ON THE TURN SIGNAL + wire and NOT the brake light +, and make sure it is making a good connection with the touchy wire splicers you probably used.

Or a MUCH BETTER FIX FOR THIS.... You can simply take apart the stock flasher and grind down one metal wire and make it flash fine with less watts than normal. The thinner the piece of metal is the less watts needed to flash without the annoying quick flash. Once again all these intructions are on the V-LEDs website, or on their Facebook page or just search online.

Here is one such article to get you started:
http://vleds.wordpress.com/2010/12/0...k-with-v-leds/

Thanks LittleBeast, Billy did actually cut and solder the connections so that should eliminate the clamp concern. The in-line vs. +/- suggestion sounds like something to explore, but remember the problem started in the FRONT blinkers, not the rear (which is what I assume you were referring to since you referenced the "the brake light +". Everything was good with the rear blinkers until we installed the front blinkers.

How do you get to all this documentation you keep referring to on their website? All I see is a FAQ's page which I already read thoroughly (didn't take long since the blinker fix is about 3 paragraphs).

http://www.v-leds.com/page/faq.html#2

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys!!!

[vt_maverick]

Sounds like its time to change the blinker fluid.

Can you guys get the new synthetic stuff over there??

PK

I was going to suggest checking the blinker fluid, but the USA models don't have blinker fluid dipsticks and are sealed systems not intended to be serviced.

Maybe a heavier weight would slow the current down more?

[LittleBeast]

How do you get to all this documentation you keep referring to on their website? All I see is a FAQ's page which I already read thoroughly (didn't take long since the blinker fix is about 3 paragraphs).

http://vleds.wordpress.com/
I don't know only thing I did was sign up for their newsletter, so I get 10% off all orders for a week arfter receiving their newsletter. Maybe that was it.

[tom4bren]

physics musta changed.

I thought that the flasher was just a bi-metal spring that made & broke electrical connection. As current flowed through the spring, the 2 metals expanded at different rates causing the spring to bend away from the contact. After it cooled down from the no current mode, it would bend back towards the contact. The process would then be repeated.

If the LEDs are drawing less current, wouldn't that mean that you would get a slower flash rate?

This is 'old school' so maybe they've changed to an electronic timer instead???

[Ldub]

Everything was good with the rear blinkers until we installed the front blinkers.

Which indicates there was still enough resistance provided by the front bulbs?

[vt_maverick]

Which indicates there was still enough resistance provided by the front bulbs?

I think so. I almost wonder if I could have added a 3rd resistor to fix the problem? That seems like a band-aid though, would much rather understand the problem and the best fix.

Time to do some reading on V-LEDs...

[mdwyer]

In my experience you (and I) bought the wrong resistors. Here's the more complete experience:

1) Ohms is backwards. You need a 3 Ohm resistor to flash two bulbs, not the 6 Ohm one. The 6 Ohm one only replaces one bulb, so it works on the backs but not the fronts.

2) You CAN buy special LED flashers, but keep in mind the ones you can find are limited to '35W', and they burst into flames if you use a LED flasher AND a resistor.

3) Make sure you use the TURN signal to test your flashers, since the hazard lights will often flash at the correct rate, even when the turn signals won't.

4) Bulbs get hot and will melt your cladding if you leave them dangling around. The resistors also can get hot. I recommend the models from VLEDS etc that are encased in their own heat sink, at the very least.