Head on with a cop!

[vt_maverick]

Yeah! It's time for Political Buzzword Bingo! We're off to a good start but here's some phrases we're still missing:

Dick Cheney, Gitmo, Big Corporations, birth certificate, defense spending, Pelosi, 9/11, Patriot Act, bail-out, ObamaCare, Bush (now Obama) tax cuts

Mix those in with some sweeping generalizations and overall blamestorming and you've got our "national dialogue."

I'll throw one in though that I do personally believe in. For most Democrats and a lot of other folks there is NOTHING that Barack Obama can do wrong that wasn't either completely or in large part caused by George W Bush. I wonder if those same folks would give John McCain the same pass.

[circmand]

Yeah! It's time for Political Buzzword Bingo! We're off to a good start but here's some phrases we're still missing:

Dick Cheney, Gitmo, Big Corporations, birth certificate, defense spending, Pelosi, 9/11, Patriot Act, bail-out, ObamaCare, Bush (now Obama) tax cuts

Mix those in with some sweeping generalizations and overall blamestorming and you've got our "national dialogue."

I'll throw one in though that I do personally believe in. For most Democrats and a lot of other folks there is NOTHING that Barack Obama can do wrong that wasn't either completely or in large part caused by George W Bush. I wonder if those same folks would give John McCain that same pass.

I would settle for them explaining how GWB was both totally incompetant yet able to fool everybody to do everything he wanted them to. While at the same time creating Hurricane Katrina

[tom4bren]

Downsizing the military can help to lower the deficit but will play havoc on the economy. Imagine if you will, a Government ban of the fast food industry. It would have a similar effect on the economy/unemployment.

Remember BO's plan to help the deficit by freezing the DOD Civilian pay? In approximately 10 years, it could defray approximately 2% of the deficit. Now that's affirmative action for ya.

Yah, it's a sore spot for me ... I are one.

[Scott Larson]

Did any of you guys hear about Hot Wasabi Junkie having a head-on with a cop?

[Osteomata]

I here you Tom, and yet the majority of the realisitc defense spending roll backs involve savings from less interventionist policies, winding down Afghanistan and Iraq troop levels, and some focused acquistioin cuts. "Downsize the military" is a phased in item that would wreak havok with the economy no more than "downsize the medical care industry" and less than "not doing anything other than kicking the can down the road" until the debt is unsustainable as a percentage of GDP. Since US national defense spending accounts for about 42% of world defense spending and that we spend more than the vast majority of other countries combined, its hard for me not to see this is one of the areas that we will need to cut if we really want to get a handle on the national debt. Given that I work with DOD civilians every day, I am sympathetic to complaints about pay freezes, but if inflation is nearly non existant why shouldn't DoD pay be frozen in an era where you have a very secure job with pay levels that arguable rose during the recession and overall size of the federal civilian employee job pool also rose? 2% is not a lot, but it is a statistically significant number and a non-permanant pay index freeze could be part of a larger package.

[vt_maverick]

Because whatever savings it creates are, as Tom said, minor and highly debatable. Remember that freezing pay isn't just a matter of dollars and cents; you do that long enough and your best young talent will leave the civilian sector to work for private contractors, who will charge the government significantly more for that person's knowledge and skill sets. On the other hand we spend RIDICULOUS amounts of money on pet weapons and systems projects that are years and hundreds of millions of dollars behind schedule. You want to squeeze the DoD budget in a substantial way? Make commands justify every line item of their budget and provide harsh accountability for overbudget and overschedule projects.

I'm telling you from first-hand knowledge that the potential there is MUCH better than 2%.

[VXR]

Remember that freezing pay isn't just a matter of dollars and cents; you do that long enough and your best young talent will leave the civilian sector to work for private contractors

Only if those contractors are hiring

[vt_maverick]

It's a shell game. You piss off a guy at your Agency A, I hire him for a project over at Command B, when that contract is up in 6-12 months I sell him back to you for 2x his prior hourly rate. Squeezing salaries is like turning the thermostat up a few degrees; sure it will help over the long haul, but will it save you enough money NOW to stay in business? But I do agree that there is a LOT of glut in the civilian sector - problem is nobody has the balls to fire the RIGHT people, they just lay off the most recent / least tenured hires, thereby ensuring the lazier guy stays employed forever.

I promise you there is no more socialistic organization than the US government.

EDIT: Want to make it clear that I don't consider Tom to be on of the "lazier guys" who stays forever. We need more guys willing to haul bombs in their personal vehicles for free.

[rsteinmetz70112]

A lot of real savings in military spending could be made if the congresscritters would allow basing to align with actual needs. We spend many billions on unneeded bases to keep jobs in congressional districts. Closing some of these unneeded money pits would save money and probably reduce government payroll. Some members only like military spending if it's in their districts.

[Osteomata]

As a pretty recent military retiree currently serving as a defense contractor, and keeping an eye out for a DoD GS position, I generally agree with last three posts while still contending that freezing federal pay is pretty reasonable if you have little or no cost of living increase, 9% unemployment, a history of pay increases during the recession, and a growth in this specific job force during the same period. We ought to be looking at all areas to effectively reduce our deficit and debt, with no sacred cows left undiscussed.

[tom4bren]

All good points.

But ...

There is no goose that lays a golden egg. They need to look at a wholistic approach. Every Government spendature needs to be evaluated and scrutinized.

Freezing the pay of DOD civilians is a start & we've gotten used to that criticism (& jokes) over the years. The amount saved is minimal though and probably so insignificant that the total is within measurement error.

Remember also that the national debt is tied DIRECTLY with the standard of living. If you want the good life, not only do you have to buy it but you have to also get everyone else to buy into it as well to support the infrastructure that goes with it.

[BigSwede]

Given the shape liberal MN is in. Did all the wrong things in the state that the liberals in DC did. Then the people get all upset at the person trying to fix it because now the piper needs paid for years of bad policy.

I may be wrong, but it seems like you are agreeing with me.

Are you aware that during BOs tenure unemployment and underemployment is over 16%? And that duringthat same period the Federal Government not only got larger but the number of people making over $100,000 a year increased dramatically? You solve the deficit by spending less not more. The percentage of taxes compared to the GNP is at the highest it's ever been and the solution is to make it higher? Thats what the liberals are saying.

I am NOT disagreeing with you. But you are missing my point - much of the increased spending recently occurred in an attempt to save the economy from a Great Depression-like event. Clamping down on spending was tried by the Hoover administration last time, and it did not work. People who say stimulus spending and bailouts are failure (Republican political candidates, often) because the economy is stagnant fail to allow for the possibility that things might have been much, much worse without the spending.

But, even if this spending saved us from greater pain in the short term, the question becomes - will this bite us in the *** down the road? Probably. Pick your poison.

A recent study actually shows the rate of turnover in Govt jobs is less than 1%. Anything less than 3% is keeping worthless employees.

I am currently working (as a contractor) in a federal building. About half the people I see walking around strike me as marginally employable in the private sector. A superficial assessment to be sure, but it agrees with your stats.

[vt_maverick]

But, even if this spending saved us from greater pain in the short term, the question becomes - will this bite us in the *** down the road? Probably. Pick your poison.

And this is the problem. Decades of choosing the short-term fix without addressing the long term problem. It's not a matter of "picking your poison" - sometime, somewhere we HAVE to pick the short-term pain. We wait until we're almost out of (other people's) money before we address the issue, and even then all most politicians want to address is how to bridge us to the next crisis. I'm tired of Band-Aids, they need to fix the problem.

[BigSwede]

This is probably the greatest weakness of a democracy. Politicians are motivated by short term concerns (get re-elected), rather than the long-term good.

[RickOKC]

Not directed at anyone in particular, just stating a long held belief....

My opinion: another weakness is that people get caught up in "my team" vs "their team" and "winning." Nobody gets points for voting for the person they think is going to win instead of who they really really want to win, but some do it anyway. Hey, knock yourself out, go crazy in regards to your favorite sports team. But this is actually important and shouldn't be reduced to some goofy "us vs. them / see, I'm right" attitude. Be serious, take it seriously and spend more time listening and learning instead of trying to prove yourself right. Heck, try to find something to prove your opinion wrong and see what you learn. Always try to see things from the other side. Or walk around like Charlie Sheen telling everyone how you're "WINNING!"

Tiger Blood Rick, signing off.

(and winning!)