Its the last day of the month....

[tom4bren]

.....that 'splains alot....

'cept for the confusion years where I was moving between TN & GA every 3 months ... I got really good at it though. All of my worldly possessions could fit in the trunk of my car.

At least I'm in good company.

[Y33TREKker]

Thank you for defining all of your posts on this thread in one post, really nice of you.

Well thanks for telling us what to expect from all of your posts, we appreciate it, and by we I mean everyone who financially contributes and thus keeps this site up and running :-)

I'm curious, is there any way of asking for financial contributions that would be acceptable to you?

Sorry Dude, I spent my formitive years in Tennessee. You'll hafta 'splain yourself a little better than that.

(I know this wasn't directed at me specifically when your wrote it t4b, but your most recent comments have so...)

Dang T4B, you've gotten around.....that 'splains alot....I think.....

So what you all are apparently saying is that in an effort to try to understand what I've been saying, you've not bothered to go back and read the explanations I HAVE provided on numerous occasions in these threads, yet you're still trying to say that the ball is in my court to explain what it is I've been saying?

I guess my last comment should have been changed to read.

More comments illustrating once again that not even attempting to hear can obviously only equal never understanding.

[VX KAT]

(I know this wasn't directed at me specifically when your wrote it t4b, but your most recent comments have so...)

So what you all are apparently saying is that in an effort to try to understand what I've been saying, you've not bothered to go back and read the explanations I HAVE provided on numerous occasions in these threads, yet you're still trying to say that the ball is in my court to explain what it is I've been saying?

Umm, are we reading the same words? I was talkin' 'bout T4B moving around /relocating a lot in his lifetime....was nuthin' 'bout hearing, understanding or 'splainin' anything.....

[tom4bren]

(I know this wasn't directed at me specifically when your wrote it t4b, but your most recent comments have so...)

I must really be dense today 'cause I don't recall making comments directed at anyone specifically

If you are referring to post #121, then you've misinterpreted what I meant for the general public to hear. I do understand your original points - I just disagree with them ... AND I was talking to the general audience, not anyone in particular.

[BigSwede]

So what you all are apparently saying is that in an effort to try to understand what I've been saying, you've not bothered to go back and read the explanations I HAVE provided on numerous occasions in these threads, yet you're still trying to say that the ball is in my court to explain what it is I've been saying?

No, I've read it. What I have gathered is you seem to feel some sort of intolerable social obligation is placed on you by requests for donations..."moral judgements" you perceive as being placed on you for not donating. So my question still stands: Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you? This is a serious question.

Oh by the way, I haven't contributed either. I don't want you to think I am coming at this from some position of perceived moral superiority.

[Ldub]

No, I've read it. What I have gathered is you seem to feel some sort of intolerable social obligation is placed on you by requests for donations..."moral judgements" you perceive as being placed on you for not donating. So my question still stands: Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you? This is a serious question.

Oh by the way, I haven't contributed either. I don't want you to think I am coming at this from some position of perceived moral superiority.

X2...do tell trek..

As MANY here on the forums, that I consider good friends, also are NOT site supporters, I'm having a hard time to figure out where you get the idea of persecution &/or moral judgement...

Is it all about you?

Have you noticed, that with very few exceptions, YOU are the only one following the beat of that single drum?

[VXR]

I must really be dense today 'cause I don't recall making comments directed at anyone specifically

Well I think this was directed at me:

Sorry Dude, I spent my formitive years in Tennessee. You'll hafta 'splain yourself a little better than that.

no?

[VXR]

Umm, are we reading the same words?

Umm, nope

[Y33TREKker]

No, I've read it. What I have gathered is you seem to feel some sort of intolerable social obligation is placed on you by requests for donations..."moral judgements" you perceive as being placed on you for not donating. So my question still stands: Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you? This is a serious question.

Oh by the way, I haven't contributed either. I don't want you to think I am coming at this from some position of perceived moral superiority.

And given you're quoted statement, how you've gathered it is in fact not as I've explained it. That that hasn't stopped you (and others who also still haven't gathered it correctly) from making responses implying I'm the person who doesn't understand what's being said though is only one of the types of responses I've been referring to.

In what seems to have become an exercise in futility though:

Given that the site does need actual money to exist, what means of requesting donations for such money would be acceptable to you?

Requesting donations that include no implied "moral judgements" directed at those who do not donate for whatever reason.

Seriously, is that hard to understand what's being implied by some who donate saying that THEY do so because it's the "right thing to do" while in the same breath describing those who don't as not "getting it"?

Simple as that, and what it would seem MOST would innately consider "acceptable".

The question you SHOULD be asking of some of the members here is why they seem to have such a problem NOT being able to do that.

The problem you'll encounter based on my experiences in these threads (and again, some of these latest responses to even my last comment) seems to be finding even one of the members who do so who is apparently even self-aware enough to realize that they're doing it.

In what seems to have become an exercise in futility though...wait for it...

[VXR]

Requesting donations that include no implied "moral judgements" directed at those who do not donate for whatever reason.

Seriously, is that hard to understand what's being implied by some who donate saying that THEY do so because it's the "right thing to do" while in the same breath describing those who don't as not "getting it"?

Simple as that

X2 well said

[VXR]

Have you noticed, that with very few exceptions, YOU are the only one following the beat of that single drum?

[Scott Harness]

What is that definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

[Moncha]

What is that definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Yep, and I'm done with the craziness...

146, now 147 posts in a seemingly innocent, good hearted post.

Here's the final deal... If you choose to just be a member of the site, whether you create threads, reply to posts, create How-Tos, write reviews, test drive for others, donate financially, donate in other ways, choose not to donate in any way, troll, choose to not actively participate in anything, choose to actively participate in everything, sit and be quiet, beat your chest or what ever floats your boat.

It is all gratefully appreciated. I cannot express in simple words, how much, it's just not possible.

Outside of Administrative duties on the site, no one has any hierarchical status over anyone else.
The only perceived status change is if someone donates financially, the color of their username changes. If I could figure a system that would track every good deed done on the site and change their username color to match, I would. 'aint gonna happen. I could run through and read every post and contact everyone to track that information but that would be a full time job. I already have one and three part time jobs so, I don't need another.

If the majority rules, I can abolish the "Site Donor recognition" part of the site and make it anonymous. There are however, other ways to tell if someone donated such as the amount of photos they have in their gallery, etc. So, I could abolish that as well, or I could just make it even across the board, everyone gets the same benefits but, then where's the incentive for making donations or in their truer name "Site Subscriptions".

I believe that the true culprit here in this thread is PERCEPTION. No matter your perception on ANYTHING that was said in this thread, the simple FACTS of this site are;

• Without the VX, there would be no reason for this site.
• Without you as a participant, there would be no reason for this site.
• Participation in any form is encouraged and apprciated
• NO ONE is any better than anyone else, no matter your perception.
• As long as the rules of the site are honored, ANYONE is welcomed here.
• Open debate on any subject matter is encouraged as long as the rules of the site are followed. (Hence the long life of this thread)
• ANYONE who violates the rules is subject to discipline.

Since this thread is getting monotonous digression is recommended.

[tom4bren]

Well I think this was directed at me:



no?

Nope. In this case you were wrong. I honestly didn't understand your post. It was written like I had hidden meaning in my post. I 'splained it fairly simply that I thought that the thread should be locked because it had made multiple 360's & was going nowhere.

Trust me ... there's not much going on upstairs. What I write is what I mean.

Oh BTW. TN is God's country. I would never make any disparaging remarks about the people down there ... God bless their little hearts.

[BigSwede]

And given you're quoted statement, how you've gathered it is in fact not as I've explained it.

"Moral judgements" was your statement, not mine.

That that hasn't stopped you (and others who also still haven't gathered it correctly) from making responses implying I'm the person who doesn't understand what's being said though is only one of the types of responses I've been referring to.

Um, OK.

Requesting donations that include no implied "moral judgements" directed at those who do not donate for whatever reason.

This is an online forum. Nobody here is in position to judge anybody, other than as a peer would in any social situation.

Seriously, is that hard to understand what's being implied by some who donate saying that THEY do so because it's the "right thing to do" while in the same breath describing those who don't as not "getting it"?

Simple as that, and what it would seem MOST would innately consider "acceptable".

You seem overly sensitive to simple salesmanship. You are being sold all the time. From TV ads implying you are smart for driving car X, to Girl Scout selling cookies, to public radio pledge drives, you are being sold. Requests for donations are the same thing. People are trying to convince you there is something of value in exchange for your money.

What you seem to feel is some sort of judgement is nothing more than salesmanship. The fact that the salesmen in question are "volunteers" doesn't give them any special status, unless you make it so.