Window Regulator

[VX KAT]

This is now a few weeks old, but I am just now getting to it:



I think I know what this mechanic is talking about, and I think I agree with him! As the window travels up and down, it wears out the rubber in FRONT of the window! I am sure that lubricating since new would have help with this wear, but it is too late for most of us now.

That wear gives window extra space to tilt forward and bind up! That binding eventually damages already poorly fitting regulator and white clips on the window.

Replacing the plastic clips with metal brackets and getting new regulator does not solve the original problem: split rubber channel with extra space! We need to ether replace the rubber guides (are they still available?) or build up some material for TIGHTER window fit (front to back).

I've seen several of these rubber gaskets (Isuzu officially calls "Glass Run"), and IMHO the rubber gasket/track/run itself is not getting worn down.
I've heard of, but haven't seen any with a "split" of any kind involving the rubber channel.

I believe it's a combination of 3 factors:

1) Rubber gets dry and doesn't allow the glass to slide easily thus causing glass to bind and struggle to go up. (So lubrication helps). I "think" because the rubber channel gets dried out, it causes glass to kind of stick to it, causing it to get ripped and torn up as glass goes up/pdown.

2) The metal channel (see my post #29) is too narrow, causing rubber gasket to be squeezed into the channel, and therefore causing more friction on both sides of glass,

3) The metal channel is pushing rearward, thus applying more pressure on the forward EDGE of the glass.

So that's why widening the channel as well as moving the vertical channel a little forward helps relieve pressure on the glass, allowing it to slide easier.

**** I don't know if any of this affects the TILT issue, as mine has never had that problem ****


I have a used glass run from a '99, I can take detailed pics of channel to see if it's showing any wear.

[tom4bren]

I hafta agree with KAT. The glass run (rubber track ... weather strip ... whatever) isn't wearing & causing the window tilt. The window tilt gets bad enough to cause the wear & tear. I've actually only heard of 2 glass runs bad enought that they had tears, mine & Allison's.

[Leon R]

Stay tuned for some "worn out to a split" photos!

As promised:

This is the outside (metal channel side)



This is the inside (glass side)



If you disconnect the regulator and move the window up and down with your hands, you can really feel the play in the "worn rubber" area.

So we seem to have a fundumental disagreement, Kat thinks this is caused by window "track" being too tight and I think that it is caused it by it being too "loose"! Could we be looking at two different problems? Afterall, she can't be THAT wrong!

Did Allison replace her "glass run" with actual NEW or used parts?

[tom4bren]

new

[VX KAT]

Stay tuned for some "worn out to a split" photos!

As promised:

This is the outside (metal channel side)



This is the inside (glass side)



If you disconnect the regulator and move the window up and down with your hands, you can really feel the play in the "worn rubber" area.

So we seem to have a fundumental disagreement, Kat thinks this is caused by window "track" being too tight and I think that it is caused it by it being too "loose"! Could we be looking at two different problems? Afterall, she can't be THAT wrong!

Did Allison replace her "glass run" with actual NEW or used parts?

Afterall, she can't be THAT wrong!

Heck yeah, I could be wrong!

Remember, I'm not addressing the tilt problem.

My truck had 65k on it when I bought it, and my windows worked, but driver side was a little slow. When I took it apart I found my rubber track had been cut off, and there was NO rubber in the metal channel from the tweeter panel down I also had severe wind noise from that area.

I bought a used one from blujfan, when I installed it, I found the glass had more more slowing/binding when it went went thru the VERY TOP of the metal channel.

So I followed "phines" How To on the forum. Others have used this fix as well.
I widened and moved my vertical track forward, and the glass had much less resistance going up. The more I tweeked it, widened, BFH forward, the less resistance it had. As well as seeing the window slow, you can also HEAR the motor slowing so I felt quite sure I knew where it was binding.

After a while, I decided to buy a NEW glass run because I live in AZ and rubber can deteriorate faster. I then sold my used glass run to Tom.

The passenger glass run I have here from my salvage yard "project" is also split like your picture, but my guess is that's from it binding and getting tugged on up and down and it just ripped….not the rubber is wearing and is thinner, allowing more space.
Maybe we are talking 2 diff problems..maybe you're talking tilt?

[tom4bren]

So we seem to have a fundumental disagreement ...

OK, We'll agree to disagree.

Afterall, she can't be THAT wrong!

Oh yes she can ... anyone who puts pink & purple accessories on a maroon vehicle can't be completely right in the head ... God bless her little heart.

Here, I'll save her some mouse clicks:

[Leon R]

Last night, I saw even more evidence that binding is caused by too much clearance. You can actually see it in my earlier photo:



First, the bracket angle appear to be smaller than 90*. I am not sure if it was suppose to be 90*, but it appears to be bent in a direction to cause too much clearance.

Second, if you follow the rail up, you can see it twisting, once again causing too much clearance.

Combine this with worn/cut glass run and you have a binding problem!

Allison, I wonder if your rails are still twisted, which could explain why new window run and regulator did not fix the problem.

Do we have any photos of this "metal rail" from when these trucks were newer?

In ether case, I will need to purchase a DS glass run, are they still available from Issuzu?

[tom4bren]

I see your logic but this is the age old "chicken & egg" thing.

Did your bent rails cause the regulator to go FUBAR or did the regulator fail letting the glass tilt which caused the rails to bend???

We'll probably never know. I'm attacking the one known problem: the guides for the vertical track can not hold up to the stresses put on them. After I get my arms wrapped around that problem, I'll look into the bent rail issue.

BTW, if your rail is bent & you just replace the glass run (rubber weather strip), aren't you just kicking the can down the road. The new glass run will cut/tear eventually.

[evillecutter]

mine rolls up just fine as long as i keep a finger on the glass to keep it from leaning foreward while it goes up - which fix do i need?

[tom4bren]

mine rolls up just fine as long as i keep a finger on the glass to keep it from leaning foreward while it goes up - which fix do i need?

Maybe just lube the rubber track the window rides in. That may be all the fix you need.

To diagnose it further, you'll have to remove the door panel & see if there are any damaged or worn components. Look at the plastic tabs that are glued to the glass. Are they broken or loose? Member SBC sells a fix for that.

Are the little white plastic guides on the crossbar (part that slides up & down the center track on the regulator) in good shape? Are they properly engaged on the vertical track all the way up & down? That's what I'm trying to fix now.

Are the glass runs (rubber weather strip that go all the way around the window frame) in good shape & are they staying in the tracks. BTW, these are the things that need to be kept lubricated (2x per year at least).

Wanna go KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)? One member wrote up how he used a bungie cord to pull up on the front of the window at it was being opened & closed. You'll have to find that thread for yourself because I never tried that. Try using the search function on 'bungie cord'. I doubt you'll come up with too many threads.

[Leon R]

I agree, throwing parts, without truly understanding the core of the problem is a waste of time and money. And I might have already done some of it…

… as it turns out, my old regulator was NOT bad! At least not totally bad! I saw the back white blocks come away from the guide, as window tilted forward and ASSumed that this was the regulator that was causing this problem… Well, the brand new regulator will do the same thing!

Right now, I am leaning toward new glass run AND straightening of the “metal rail” as being the ultimate solution. So I can see why Allison’s problem wasn’t fixed with a new regulator and new window run. But first, I want to see if I can find some photos of this rail when it was new(er)! I hope someone can help me find it!

Evillecutter, If all it take is “one finger” pressure to keep your window going up, you might be able to do the “$3 bungee cord mod”. In my case, I would need 3-5 of those bungies .

[tom4bren]

I want to see if I can find some photos of this rail when it was new(er)! I hope someone can help me find it!

I can't help you there son. If I can get some on the next regulator swap, I will. Those will be some difficult shots to take though.

[VX KAT]

Last night, I saw even more evidence that binding is caused by too much clearance. You can actually see it in my earlier photo:



First, the bracket angle appear to be smaller than 90*. I am not sure if it was suppose to be 90*, but it appears to be bent in a direction to cause too much clearance.

Second, if you follow the rail up, you can see it twisting, once again causing too much clearance.

Do we have any photos of this "metal rail" from when these trucks were newer?

In ether case, I will need to purchase a DS glass run, are they still available from Issuzu? - YES, still available, about $65.

Right now, I am leaning toward new glass run AND straightening of the “metal rail” as being the ultimate solution. So I can see why Allison’s problem wasn’t fixed with a new regulator and new window run. But first, I want to see if I can find some photos of this rail when it was new(er)! I hope someone can help me find it!

1) Just so I'm clear, are you saying thru regular use, the glass and glass run actually caused the forward vertical metal channel (that my screwdriver tip is pointing to) to bend/twist?





2) The bracket you're asking about the angle…It was never 90 degrees, it's just as in your picture and mine.
I tried to move mine (to be a smaller angle), but I really only moved it maybe 1mm, if that.

"Phines" wrote up a "How To" on how to bend that bracket and widen the vertical channel:
http://www.vehicross.info/modules.ph...ewarticle&id=3





3) Anybody have a pic of the vertical metal channel "twisted"?



4) Here's two threads on BUNGEE CORD fix:

a) http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...hlight=zip+tie

b) http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...63&postcount=9

Here, I'll save her some mouse clicks:

…and yer point iz?

[Leon R]

I have also found that "how to" article, and I can see how making it wider might help, but I am comletely at a loss how it could possibly help to bend it forward!

Bending it forward, gives it more room to tilt forward, which, in turn moves the upper rear corner OUT of the rear glas run! How could it possibly help?

[Allison3371]

Tom and Sue,
I stopped by the mechanic that replaced the regulator and showed him the problem. He said "that's no big deal". He said he just needed to remove the glass and bend the regulator bracket there on the bottom of the glass so the upper plastic clip sits on the track again. I'm going to let him try. Then it's his ***** if he breaks it...or so I hope.

Leon, Do you have this problem too?

My window rocked forward about 1/2 way up. My window guide rubber thingy was split, I replaced it, but I don't think that was my problem. Now, I think I know what my problem is. This stupid plastic clip that doesn't line up to the track.