Grey cladding

[bssage]

I see there are several very useful threads on how to darken the cladding. Rather that make duplicates on each thread. I thought I would post this here. I hope the people with ongoing thread update their pics I am watching closely.

I am also hoping that a understanding of the problem will help those people develop a fix. With the knowledge it will very likely never completely go away.

In the rubber industry we would call that "greying" Bloom. And plastics are very similar in process as rubber/

The bloom is not the fading of the color from the sun. Although sunlight does draw it out faster. A vx that had been stored its entire life in a dark room would eventually bloom.

The bloom is typically a compound in the raw plastic or rubber. Most if the time it is either a filler. An ingredient that shouldn't effect testing properties that make for larger batches (like adding water to whiskey) or a mold release agent. To allow the product to be removed from molding without tearing.

The effectiveness of the products we are using is not how well they protect from the environment. But rather keeping this compound from leaching to the surface. The best way to hold the bloom at bay is with paint type of products. Because they hold it in. But paint on a simi rigid product is sketchy at best.

The reason stuff blooms is because whether its plastic or rubber. None of the things are fully cured. Rubber can be as low as 60% cured, not sure about plastic but I am sure its state of cure would not be 100%. Because 100% would make the rubber or plastic brittle. This is why heat guns are pretty effective at making it stay away longer.

We used to use Toluene to remove. Which by the way is absorbed through your genitals like 200% faster than you hands (to much free time in the lab with the MSDS books) It will remove bloom. But it will do nothing to hold it at bay.

[blacksambo]

Wonderful evaluation, and explanation. Now how do we outsmart the "bloom " and fix it?

[VX KAT]

Great technical details. Somewhere I vaguely recall reading about a leaching effect...probably something I read here a long time ago, but can't recall who or what exactly.

Wonder if that's why the Showroom New dye seems to be so effective? Maybe it arrests the bloom because it absorbs into the plastic, or perhaps preventing the bloom from leaching out by being a physical barrier to it?

I've been meaning to do an update on my SN thread...but it's been 18 months and mine still looks the same and I've never applied ANY product to it, no B2B, no Tire Shine, no nothing, ever since I dyed it.
I go thru a car wash about 3-4/year, but I don't get any "treatment" applied or trim detailed on the car at all.

When I was doing the polishing, waxing and then buffing with the Griot's products in January, I got some wax splatters on the cladding. I rubbed with a cloth right away, and they just seemed to disappear....no white residue, no change in look of the cladding..... I thought it would maybe make it shine more, but it didn't.

[bssage]

I guessing here.

Its my guess that the showroom new dye is doing two things. First it is likely be solvent based. That would remove the current bloom on the part. Solvents will remove not stop bloom. Then my guess is that since it is absorbed into the part rather than coating the surface. It creates a larger or deeper area for the bloom to permeate. I believe it will reappear over time.

The only fixes I was aware of at the time I left the industry. To reduce or eliminate the saturation of compound that is leeching. Or to increase the state of cure and retard the effect. Changing the compound is of course impossible for the end user to do. And increasing the state of cure is extremely difficult.

Most of the products we use were originally not intended for the "end user" but rather to correct/fix a problem rather than replace large quantities of parts at the assembly plants.

I believe the dye falls into that category. That being the case there likely is some statistical information floating around that can tell you exactly how long it will remain effective. I would use caution and not use this product on weather stripping like inside the doors under the hood ect. Those seals typically use some type of abrasion resistance coatings that could fail if dyed and cause the components to freeze. Destroying the parts in the winter.

Increasing the state of cure is IMHO just not practical for the common end user.

Also IMHO Kat's Dye is what I would bet on having the best success for the longest amount of time. I will be watching.

Its been 10 yrs since I have been involved. I am sure there is new stuff out there.

[Mile High VX]

So if someone took a vehicle to a body shop to have the plastic cladding reconditioned what would they do that would be different than the options we've seen here?

[vt_maverick]

Thoughts on GatorBack's longevity?

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...highlight=dope

[bssage]

Sure but remember they are just My Opinions. Although I have been extensively involved in this stuff. I AM NOT A CHEMIST.

In a nutshell it is a type of paint that may/will lock in the bloom by creating a hardened barrier for it to try and pass.

I dont want to get myself in trouble here. But some of their claims appear to be a flat out lies.

This is the claim

Gatorback Textured Plastic Cleaner is a unique blend of mild solvents formulated to remove contaminates from plastic and metal surfaces, painted or unpainted. This product does NOT contain mineral spirits! It leaves no oily film on surfaces like other cleaners.

And this is what the MSDS sheet list for the cleaner:

Aliphatic Petroleum Naphthas (mineral spirit)
*Xylene (oil based solvent)
Isopropyl Alcohol (oil based solvent)
Heptane
Isobutane/propane aerosol propellant

What does that mean to us? Nothing really. Almost all solvents are oil based otherwise (the Napthas even say Petroleum) they would evaporate as soon as you opened the lid because many have a flash point lower than room temp. I expected those things to be there. For you all it really means you should wear gloves and apply in a ventilated area. For me the problem is just lying right out of the gate. For me that makes their other claims suspect.

The coating is kinda what I said in the OP it uses both in the coating itself and the prep for the coating Xylene, Toluene, & Naptha. These will absolutely remove the bloom from the surface. This is important for two reasons. Bloom is a function of time so it will take it longer to become visible. And for the adhesion of the coating/paint.

The good news. If the claims are to be believed it appears to be an approved process for gm. If that is true there would have to be a significant amount of testing involved in getting GM's stamp of approval. And it is my opinion that it must be approved. Or that claim would open a large can of wupp @ss from GM.

I would stick very closely to the application process recommended by GatorBack. These guys spend a significant amount of time making the product and process easy as possible and robust. It is very likely each and every step has a value attached to it statistically.

What is specific to gatorback is the

Acrylic Resin

or hard barrier to the bloom. This is a extremely difficult thing to do. Paint over a semi rigid substrate. And its even harder as a secondary process where we are unable to bake the coating to the surface.

The question I would have is when it fails. And I believe eventually it will. What will that failure consist of. De-lamination, Discoloration, ect. Without knowing that it may be worse than the original problem. It might not: I dont know. Heck it may last years, again I dont know.

My opinion is that if it were the perfect fix. They would have stamps of approval from all the big three. Bloom has been a major problem for plastics and rubber for many years. So my summary is that it probably is the best fix at this time. You are going to be our beta tester. That is made more significant by the fact that you are a long time respected member of this forum. I would take your word over the product claims any day. And the same goes for Kat.

IMHO
bssage

[bssage]

So if someone took a vehicle to a body shop to have the plastic cladding reconditioned what would they do that would be different than the options we've seen here?

Possibly. The advantage a body shop would have is a large walk in curing oven. That could either increase the state of cure of the part. Or cross-link a coating to the surface. Or better yet both. Without the ability to physically cross-link the coating to the substrate with heat. We are counting on a chemical reaction to do that. Not impossible. But difficult.

So depending on the knowledge of the technicians and adequateness of the shop. It is possibly value added.

[VxSport]

Our Cladding is still oem....untouched. A couple times a year I detail the VX. I use a product by Mothers called Back-to-Black. It cleans and protects perfectly.

[bssage]

Our Cladding is still oem....untouched. A couple times a year I detail the VX. I use a product by Mothers called Back-to-Black. It cleans and protects perfectly.

I think I am using something similar. But I have to reapply every week or two. I think that is the point of many of the cladding projects.

[blacksambo]

I swear by Formula 303.

[bssage]

When we are talking about what we use. We should include the frequency of use. I am sure a lot of things work. I am lazy and want to get the look without the work

[blacksambo]

I agree. The 303 seems to last for quite a while, though (3 months?). I think the key to using it is the part that says "wipe dry". By drying it, it stays less tacky and subject to dirt adherence, which dulls the finished look on most other treatments. But in reality it does not fix anything, it's cosmetic and subjective.

[whitebreadx]

is is okay to paint your cladding screws

[KRemo]

I had my cladding taken off and line-x front to back. It looks really sharp and all I do is spray it with the hose it looks great.