wont start

[evillecutter]

ok so the vx is turning from something fun to something seriously draining not only on my patience but also on my wallet - everything was running fine enginewise on proton until yesterday when i went out to start it after work - turned the key and it acted like it wanted to start but then immediately died - next turn of the key and its rolling over and i have plenty of electricity but it just wont fire and there are no warning or check engine lights - any suggestions? my first thought is that it feels jsut like when the timing belt went out on my 626 but i dont want to have that replaced unless absolutely necessary - fuel pump? - put on new fuel filter, fpr, icv, tps, and ngk plugs within the last 6 months... sorry to be such a pain but not a lot of other places to turn to with this vehicle and if i cant figure it out soon this might end up turning from a troubleshooting thread to a for sale thread

[VXorado]

Try pressing the gas when you turn the ignition. If it turns over, its most likely an egr issue.

[evillecutter]

tried that - smelled gas which made me think it wasnt the fuel pump thats what has me worried thinking it slipped timing or something along those lines - i was getting a small amount of valve chatter before it happened but i assumed that was normal

[VXorado]

That's too bad, I was hoping that would work based on your past idle problems. I believe a bad intake manifold gasket can cause idle issues and sudden start-up problems. Unfortunately, not having a cel makes it tough.

That 3.5l is a non interference engine which is good news if the timing belt slipped.

[tom4bren]

Try a computer reset before you put out any $$$. Just disconnect your battery for 30 minutes & try again.

Not likely to work but it's a cheap thing to try.

[evillecutter]

That's too bad, I was hoping that would work based on your past idle problems. I believe a bad intake manifold gasket can cause idle issues and sudden start-up problems. Unfortunately, not having a cel makes it tough.

That 3.5l is a non interference engine which is good news if the timing belt slipped.

well im assuming there is no check engine light - all the lights come on when i turn the key but the car has to start for it to actually show me - dont know if timing belt would even throw a cel anyways? the motor has much more vibration than normal when i turn the key than when it normally starts, kinda shakes the steering wheel - gonna have it towed home today and start the quest for someone who can work on it properly

[tom4bren]

Page 6A-4 of the shop manual has some limited diagnostics to get you started.

It very likely could be your timing belt. Sounds a lot like when my old Eclipse belt went.

You can still check for stored codes without the engine running. The reader/computer just needs the key in the ignition position to read stored codes.

[evillecutter]

im sure its the original timing belt since everything else on this car has been factory/stock/original - and with 113k miles it was probably long overdue anyways - so until i can find someone i trust to work on this beast its garage art

[MSHardeman]

I don't really think that our timing belts can "slip". It's a "toothed" belt that rides on "toothed" gears so unless the belt is stripped or the tensioner has gone out I don't think you could slip a timing belt. Have you ever changed the fuel filter and fuel pressure regulators? My VX had a starting issue at Moab one year, and when I got back home I replaced my fuel filter (which was totally clogged because I couldn't blow through it) and my fuel pressure regulator and that seemed to fix everything. Both of those parts are cheap and, relatively, easy to get to so maybe give them a try first.

When you turn your key on the ignition to run (I think that's what it is), before you turn it once more to start the engine, you should be able to hear your fuel pump in the gas tank turn on to prime the engine, so that's an easy one to diagnose and make sure that it's working.

Those are my guesses.

[evillecutter]

I don't really think that our timing belts can "slip". It's a "toothed" belt that rides on "toothed" gears so unless the belt is stripped or the tensioner has gone out I don't think you could slip a timing belt. Have you ever changed the fuel filter and fuel pressure regulators? My VX had a starting issue at Moab one year, and when I got back home I replaced my fuel filter (which was totally clogged because I couldn't blow through it) and my fuel pressure regulator and that seemed to fix everything. Both of those parts are cheap and, relatively, easy to get to so maybe give them a try first.

When you turn your key on the ignition to run (I think that's what it is), before you turn it once more to start the engine, you should be able to hear your fuel pump in the gas tank turn on to prime the engine, so that's an easy one to diagnose and make sure that it's working.

Those are my guesses.

the timing slipped on my 68 firebird because the toothed gears wore down that held it on but that was a timing chain not a timing belt - i would assume that a belt would be able to slip much easier than a metal chain but a belt would also keep the gears holding it on from wearing down as well so i may have just answered my own question - the 626 i had it just snapped no warning whatsoever (belt not chain) - put on new fuel filter, fpr, icv, tps, and ngk plugs within the last 6 months - anyone know how to get to the fuel pump? i cant hear it priming but i never really could before this happened either - i can smell gas when i pump the pedal

[MSHardeman]

I have my old engine apart right now, and I can take pictures of the timing bits for you if you would like. Both the belt and the gears have some pretty deep ridges on them so I don't think that it would be possible for them to slip on eachother unless something was excessivly worn, or the tensioner gave out and allowed the belt to jump a tooth.

I think the fuel filter is actually IN the fuel tank. You'll have to drop the tank itself to be able to get to the top of the tank where the fuel pump is bolted up.

[VXorado]

Yes Mark is right, you would need to drop the gas tank to find the fuel pump. It's not difficult but time consuming.

...better yet, there's a schrader valve on the fuel rail- depress it (cover with cloth) and fuel should spray out for a second. Now turn the ignition a bit and check the valve- if it sprays out again, the fuel rail has pressure and the injectors should be getting enough fuel to turn over the engine.

[Ldub]

This is kind of a shot inna dark but...

Since you mentioned noticeable valve clatter...

I remember a few posts in tha past, where someone had a sound that was like clatter or even the dreaded "death knock"...turned out to be the timing belt tensioner saying goodbye, which would also explain the possible circumstance of the timing belt skipping a cog...

In any event, with sleuthing out the solution.

[Ldub]

I think the fuel filter is actually IN the fuel tank. You'll have to drop the tank itself to be able to get to the top of the tank where the fuel pump is bolted up.

Mark, it's fairly apparent to me that your brain was thinking fuel pump, but your digits typed filter...

The filter is on the pass side frame.

[MSHardeman]

You are correct Dub. Mind thought fuel pump, fingers typed fuel filter.

Yes, fuel pump on passenger side frame rail, fuel PUMP in gas tank.

I either need to get my fingers or my brain fixed.