Replacing Timing Belt & Thermostat Brought me back

[Techy-D]

I've recently decided it was time to replace my timing belt (@ 117K), which brought me back here. I figured I could accomplish it and with the help of Barts Timing Belt writeup I believe I've done good (Not positive, because I've continued on with the Thermostat change (because It's been taking forever to warm up). Not much info to be found on the subject, but I went at it with a camera and persistance. At this point it's stripped down and I should have the remaining hose at the parts house tonight. Which means I hope to get it mostly together before the weekend is over (Hope to beat the rain tomorrow morning, as I'm working outside). I'll tell you how it went once I get her back together (successfull stories are always more fun).

Which brings me to my questions:
1) Did I just miss a writeup on the Thermostat change? IF there isn't one, would there be interest if I gave it a shot? Might not be worth the time??

2) I see in a couple threads that the recomended torque values for the Intake is now 13ft/lbs. Is that true for both the lower and (middle) upper part?


Thanks for any insight!

[Techy-D]

UPDATE: Well, after a late night (early morning actually), I got her back together and poured in some coolant as it began to downpour outside. I called it a Night/Morning and got some ZZZZzzzzsss. I finished filling with antifreeze and gave it a try this morning, and... well at first I had a sinking feeling as it cranked.... way more than normal (It took a couple seconds for me to remember I had drained the fuel header which had to refill), then Varoomm!!! Yeah! Success. I'll keep and eye on the fluids as it burps out any air and I should be good to put the cladding back on and get her back on the road!

[Techy-D]

Just incase anyone was wondering - It's been over a week and everything's been fine after my mechanican adventure. It used about 2 cups of water the first day (I'm sure it was just air burping out). It was nice to finally have the time, $$'s, and motivation all at the same time!!!! It's also nice to get back on this site and do a little catching up. I still don't have too much extra time when I'm at the computer, but I'll do my best to check in more often. I'm making a list of pieces/Parts I need to keep maintaining/fixing up my VX's (I think the Ebony "Stuby" is Jealous of the Silver one now, so I'll have to give it some more attention soon. )

Anyway, now that I've got a minute, I thought I'd pass along a couple more things I noticed during this last adventure.

1) There was a Metal chip stuck in the spring portion of my old Thermostat (Looks like a from a lathe or something - probably from when they machined the block?????). Kinda strange and may have been what chewed up part of the rubber out of the thermostat. Also possibly from when I had it flushed at 80K???

2) I found out where the mice/critters had taken the fuzzy stuff from under my hood protector. It was in a massive nest under my manifold.

3) There was a couple cracks in the intake gaskets (Only one appears to have been an issue). This may have been why the engine would surge and run rougher when starting and stopping a few times (short trips). Glad it turns out that I had to replace when doing the thermostat and it runs SUPER DUPER now.

It's nice to be able to "come home" to this site, even when I've been gone a long time. Thanks!

[MrCrowley]

Glad to hear everything is ok so far! I have the exact same mileage on my VX, and when the funds pop up shortly, I am in for the same deal. My t-stat has had the same slow warm-up issue for years now. Since I dont drive it much due to mpg issues, I just "let it ride' lol. Always planned on waiting for the timing belt change to do it anyways. I am willing to bet money that some metal chunk is the culprit on mine as well. I guess better stuck open than closed though!
Keep it rollin...

[tom4bren]

If it's just the thermostat getting stuck open that's bothering you, try deermagnet's trick set up. He installed an external thermostat in line with the OEM.

You should be able to find the thread pretty easily if you search through threads started by him.

Edit:

Here Ya go; saved you some leg work:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21864

[Techy-D]

Glad to hear everything is ok so far! I have the exact same mileage on my VX, and when the funds pop up shortly, I am in for the same deal. My t-stat has had the same slow warm-up issue for years now. Since I dont drive it much due to mpg issues, I just "let it ride' lol. Always planned on waiting for the timing belt change to do it anyways. I am willing to bet money that some metal chunk is the culprit on mine as well. I guess better stuck open than closed though!
Keep it rollin...

There didn't seem to be any interest in a writeup for that kind of thing, but I still have the pictures I took along the way. I kind of wonder if it would be possible to change the Thermostat without removing the manifold (with some special tools). It would sure be a tight fit and frustrating! BUT then you'd miss the other stuff under there that probably needs some attention. I've also noticed my MPGs have dropped a bit (I was getting 17-18 the last couple months), now down to the 15's since the job (probably the weather has a lot to do with it, but that intake leak may of helped my milage a bit???).

[Leon R]

I am interested in such write up! Will be doing my thermostat this summer and the information the better!

I hoping that my poor fuel economy is caused my a thermostat keeping the engine too cold (158*). If ECU keeps thinking I am warming up, it might be keeping fuel on the rich side.

[Leon R]

Looks like a write up never materialized. Can you go over the list of parts needed for thermostat change?

I suspect it will be:

Thermostat and it's gasket
Intake manifold gaskets

What else?

[MSHardeman]

Looks like the link to Bart's write-up is gone (nofuture.com). Hopefully he will see this or PM him (nfpgasmask) to see if he can send it to you. If not, I have the write up printed out at home and I could scan that and send it your way if that would help.

[Triathlete]

Mark, Barts writeup is for the timing belt. Leon is asking about the thermostat.

[Ldub]

Looks like a write up never materialized. Can you go over the list of parts needed for thermostat change?

I suspect it will be:

Thermostat and it's gasket
Intake manifold gaskets

What else?

There's an "O" ring that seals a hard pipe which feeds the heater core, that is pretty EZ to bugger up on re-assembly. IIRC you have to remove the manifold in which it's contained, which is aft od the thermo manifold itself, to get to the thermostat. Get a replacement before you start, & be CAREFUL on re assembly, as you won't know it's buggered until you're adding coolant after it's all back together...

Ask me how I know....

The common chamber (intake manifold) torque values have ALL been revised to 13 ft/lb.

I'll do some digg'n tomorrow, to see if I can get you a part# for the "O" ring, as I know I have one left in tha inventory. Also, I'll never make that connection again without a little spooge of black RTV...just in case...

[MSHardeman]

AH! My mistake. Getting to the thermostat is quite a pain in the tuckus. It was tough getting to it on the spare engine that I am tearing down. Let me know if you need any pictures of parts of the engine before you dive in. I recently replace the knock sensor on my engine and that was a bit of a chore.

Good luck!

[Leon R]

There's an "O" ring that seals a hard pipe which feeds the heater core, that is pretty EZ to bugger up on re-assembly. IIRC you have to remove the manifold in which it's contained, which is aft od the thermo manifold itself, to get to the thermostat. Get a replacement before you start, & be CAREFUL on re assembly, as you won't know it's buggered until you're adding coolant after it's all back together...

Ask me how I know....

The common chamber (intake manifold) torque values have ALL been revised to 13 ft/lb.

I'll do some digg'n tomorrow, to see if I can get you a part# for the "O" ring, as I know I have one left in tha inventory. Also, I'll never make that connection again without a little spooge of black RTV...just in case...

I need to get this done before the winter . Does anyone know what o-rings I will need?

[Leon R]

Well, I just completed the thermostat replacement… IT IS as much of an PITA as everyone said. Only in my case, it was complicated by lack of planning! I (foolishly) figured that I will just run over to a nice hardware store next to my town and match up the oring (SINGULAR) that I need… There were THREE things with this plan:

1. Hardware store didn’t have the size that I needed!
2. What you find at most hardware stores (and even the hydraulics stores!), are Buna-rubber orings. They are fine up to 200*F, but most car engines can often get up to 200-230*F! They will work fine at first, but eventually they will harden and will start to leak. That might take 5+ years to happen, so it will be OK for most people.
3. There are actually TWO different sizes of o-rings! The “small” (20mm ID) and the “large” (24mm ID). Technically, you only MUST remove the smaller one. BUT once I saw its condition (was hard as PLASTIC!), I decided to replace the lower/large one as well. Only at that point, I didn’t realize that they were two different sizes… That cost me one more day.





What I should have done, was to order from Honda/Isuzu:

Isuzu/Honda part numbers :
9-09561-225-0 Gasket, Water Pipe
9-09561-220-0 Gasket, Water Pipe replaced by 1-09623-130-0
8-97123-161-4 Thermostat

Info is from Isuzu Planet http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewto...712891#p712891

What I did instead was running around from one hardware store to another and some hydraulic shops. To make things work:

- the smaller one was #116 from a hydraulic shop.
- the larger one was #119 (though hardware store named it #19, as I recall)

Ether way, these o-rings made from Buna and are NOT all that great for automotive use!

IMO, best option is just to buy the above part numbers! Even with Honda's markup, they are only around $3 each, you just have to plan ahead!

BTW, both of my "original" orings were completely HARD and cracked the moment I attempted to remove them. I also had a few drops of antifreeze on the top of my block, so I suspect those orings were already failing and I just didn't know about it. I have no idea if they were already replaced with Buna orings or if this is what happens to OEM orings after 14+ years...

[Cable Bob]

Leon thank you SO much for the input since I'll be attacking most of this in the near future. Have to change the timing belt/water pump and thought I'd do the thermostat while I was under there and I did know about the o rings but I thought like you did... you saved me a huge hassle, I owe you a few beers my friend for that info!