transfer case issues?

[evillecutter]

thanks tom!!! - yeah i did get a little off topic didnt i.....

[tom4bren]

ROFL

Yer allowed ... & you actually have a way to go to match the standards set by Ldub.

[evillecutter]

i guess it could be important info to someone who is looking to AVOID transfer case issues so it might help - im giving them some serious thought - i dont want to go through this again - this has been an issue that came and went with my vx since i bought it - looking foreward to driving it once its fixed and actually working the way it was supposed to

[tom4bren]

Not to mention the fun that can be had doing donuts in a snow covered parking lot if the front drive is disengaged.

But I should highlight what was buried in the earlier conversation: installing locking hubs will not significantly improve fuel consumption. There are good reasons for the upgrade ... but that's not one of them.

[evillecutter]

ok jsut got off the phone with the driveline guy - he said he has been doing this for 30+ years - putting locking hubs on an awd vehicle without changing the transfer case is a bad bad deal he said - locking hubs are not for awd at all - he said it will eventually build up and cause the viscious coupling that tears the clutches apart - he also said he is having a hard time finding the bearings for the transfer case - im looking up merlin's # and going tyo see how much they run through him - apparently the dealership in louisville, ky that they were using for parts only has one - thoughts?

talked to merlin - he agrees with the driveline shop about the manual hubs but cant find the bearings either - apparently there are 4 bearings - 3 are the same and easily found - one has its own part # and there are none in the u.s.

driveline shop says reusing the bearing should not be a problem they look new but they need the 3 seals...calling merlin again...

merlin says no go on the seals either - none in the united states - apparently our transfer case is unique - no other vehicle even other isuzus have the same transfer case - he said it is VERY rare that these transfer cases have any mechanical issues - the tod sensors and stuff go out all the time but never a mechanical problem with the actual insides of the tcase - he ordered the seals but minimum of 6 to 8 weeks for them to fill a boat with enough stuff to justify throwing my 3 tiny seals in with all the other crap to float to the u.s.

i asked the driveline guys what they think about putting an entirely different transfer case in and disable the tod and whateve all together and he said "it could be done if i caould find a tcase to fit in there but i cant think of any that would"

stupid vehicross

they are going to try to make the seals seeing as nothing cross references - the guy said his contact for bearings laughed when he said he was working on a vehicross - he also said "man i thought this thing was kinda silly until we put it up on the lift - this thing is SERIOUSLY bad ***"

[tom4bren]

If the TX guy has already disassembled yours, then you should be able to get measurements from the bearings that need to be replaced (I'm talking micrometer type measurements though). With those measurements, you should be able to buy a COTS equivalent bearing that just doesn't have Isuzu's number stamped into it.

Years ago, when I was rebuilding a tranny on my Samurai, I was having problems finding some of the bearings. One bearing issue was solved by Suzuki. They no longer stocked the "OEM" bearing but cross referenced it to a newer part. The only difference between the two bearings was that one was sealed & one was not. The second issue was solved by myself & a buddy who custom made airplane parts that were no longer manufactured. We basically lathed a brass bushing to fit in place of a bushing that could no longer be ordered.

After having said all that, the point is that you can probably get'r done but you'll have to think outside the box.

Maybe it's time to check into a used transfer case to get your VX running while you collect the parts to rebuild your original.

[tom4bren]

ok jsut got off the phone with the driveline guy - he said he has been doing this for 30+ years - putting locking hubs on an awd vehicle without changing the transfer case is a bad bad deal he said - locking hubs are not for awd at all - he said it will eventually build up and cause the viscious coupling that tears the clutches apart ...

I'll have to agree to disagree with your expert ... at least in regard to the VehiCross.

If we had a chain driven transfer case like the NP203 from back in the 70's, I'd say he was spot on. If we had a transfer case like Toyota used in the Land Cruisers back in the early 90's, I'd agree as well.

Our transfer case however works much like an open differential ... at least until it senses wheel slip. Then the magic of the electric clutches happens & power is diverted to the front. The locking hubs won't cause 'build up'.

[Triathlete]

Non tod trooper case should work if you still want to go that route. The lo gearing is not as low though.

[evillecutter]

either way im apparently the only person in history that doesnt do serious off roading that has ever had to rebuild a borg warner transfer case - they said they are some of the toughest tcases made and they almost never see them unless its from some serious construction equipment or one of ford's more heavy duty work trucks

when i asked the driveline guy what he think happened he just kind of shook his head and said it was probably owned by a 17 year old girl before i bought it and i have bad luck

so thats where im at - need the seals to get it back together - at least the guys seemed to look at it like a challenge rather thatn a get it out of my shop i dont want to mess with it anymore type of thing - he seemed pretty confident if no other car on earth ever had the same seals thean he will be able to make them somehow - and if that doesnt work i wait for merlin's magic boat from japan

by the way this was my first call to merlin - all the talk about him is true hes a nice guy very friendly and helpful

[evillecutter]

If we had a chain driven transfer case like the NP203 from back in the 70's, I'd say he was spot on. If we had a transfer case like Toyota used in the Land Cruisers back in the early 90's, I'd agree as well.

he did say my chain was severley stretched out

[tom4bren]

Yah, but the NP203 didn't have the 'lectric clutches.

It sounds to me like the previous owner SERIOUSLY abused that VX. The chain was probably stretched by using 4L on dry pavement. Not sure why the clutch plates would have sheared off though.

[Marlin]

I am not sure I believe the transfer case thing. The late model 3rd gen troopers use the same transfer case as us and there are tons of those in the yards. I would just do a 5 speed swap if you are that worried.
I have been running manual hubs for 4 years, cross country drive, I regularly wheel the old girl with a front locker to boot, and I have no problems.
JoeD put a manual transfer case in his VX, so it is easily doable.
Good luck!

[evillecutter]

thanks guys - im no expert when it comes to this - personally i dont see how manual hubs would hurt anything at all except for having no tod - as far as the transfer case goes if they can find or make the seals it should be good as new so i dont need a new transfer case but i have a set of seals ordered from japan anyways just in case (could be 8 weeks) maybe they can help someone in the future if i dont end up needing them

[evillecutter]

talked to the guys again today - they said there is no such thing as a making new seals and he has been doing this for 30+ years and has never heard of any type of company that can do that - i said "well arent they jsut big o rings?" and he said "no they are seals" ........ i tried calling places that i thought might do that type of fabrication but everyone else told me the exact same thing that it cannot be done

so basically my vx is sitting in a garage for the next two months until the friggin japan boat comes to town

i cant use another transfer case for parts because taking the seals out ruins the seal -

im not buying a used transfer case because ther is a good chance it will be junk too and im not spending another grand when this has already been torn down and 90% back together - any other suggestions?

anyone ever ordered these seals from another company besides isuzu? so far rockauto and partsgeek have given me nothing but wrong parts...

[nocturnalVX]

My transfer case is going as well. Merlin gave me the same info about how it is very unusual for ISUZU transfer cases to go bad (I guess we are just lucky) and that our TC is vehicle specific to the VehiCROSS (no Trooper donors for us). The plan is to have mine rebuilt while Cece and I are on vacation. I was going to buy a used one off a fellow member, but that deal apparently fell through... I will post an update when I get back from the trip and have all the info.