Crank case full of coolant

[Starglider]

Took my Vehicross on a long holiday drive last week, started losing coolant noticably, but I couldn't find any leak. I assumed it was a radiator issue so I topped it off and resolved to pressure test when I got home. Unfortunately at our last stop the car would not turn over in the morning. I cranked it and the engine turned about 20 degrees but no further. Then a seal blew out at the bottom of the crankcase and dumped all the coolant on the parking lot.

Looks like a coolant leak into the crank case that was slowly getting worse, then suddenly blew and flooded the engine overnight. Didn't lose any oil, just coolant. That explains some intermittent cat warning light and rough start issues I had earlier last week. I assume the only solution is engine rebuild? If so I might take the opportunity to upgrade my 3.2L JDM engine to the 3.5L you guys have (20% more torque); I can see a 3.5L 2nd gen Trooper for sale near me with only 60K on the clock (my VehiCROSS has 90k).

[vp277]

Most likely it's one of the headgaskets, you need to do a compression test to verify. Full rebuilt might not be needed, depending on how long you had coolant mixed with oil.

[Scott Larson]

Coolant in the oil will definitely take out your cam bearings not to mention just about every other bearing in the block, it's time for a rebuild. As vp stated, a headgasket is the most likely source of your troubles, if it's leaking between a coolant passage and an oil return passage a compression test will not reveal that. If it were a leak between a coolant passage and an oil supply passage you would have oil in your coolant as the oil pressure is much higher then the coolant pressure (roughly 60 pounds versus 12 pounds pressure). Coolant leaking into the cylinders produces thick white smoke. The other possibility is a cracked block. If it is the block, that motor is toast. You may want to secure that replacement engine. Best of luck, sorry about your woes...

[Leon R]

I guess it depends on how long you drove it with water in the crank case. I have seen people getting away with it, as long as they caught it quickly.

[Starglider]

Thanks for the advice Scott, you know a lot more about these engines than me.

I guess it depends on how long you drove it with water in the crank case. I have seen people getting away with it, as long as they caught it quickly.

Hard to say how much water was getting in before it flooded overnight. Given the likelihood of bearing damage and the risk of a cracked block I think swapping in a rebuilt engine is the way to go (3.5L if possible). Looking at donor cars (Troopers) now; will also give me a spare transmission just in case.

[Scott Larson]

I guess it depends on how long you drove it with water in the crank case. I have seen people getting away with it, as long as they caught it quickly.

If it were just water, you are absolutely correct as water does not have the same effect as antifreeze when mixed with oil. When mixed with oil, water will cause sludge to form degrading the lubrication properties of the oil but in the short-term, not catastrophically. The problem with antifreeze (ethylene glycol) is that when it mixes with oil, it increases the viscosity and glycolic acid is formed, the resulting imulsion becomes abrasive and corrosive attacking the softer bearing surfaces first (the cam bearings) along with the mains and the rod bearings, the cylinder walls will also become scuffed. This damage occurs very quickly once the oil has been contaminated. From what Starglider had posted, the contamination was not discovered until the crankcase was so full that the reduced case volume caused hydraulic-lock and blew the main seals when he attempted to restart it.

[evillecutter]

i dont know if i would consider the 3.2 to 3.5 an upgrade unless you can make sure it doesnt eat oil

[Y33TREKker]

... I assume the only solution is engine rebuild? If so I might take the opportunity to upgrade my 3.2L JDM engine to the 3.5L you guys have (20% more torque)

I'd probably view that one as a "while you're in there" situation. If the engine was going to have to be torn down far enough to replace the head gaskets, it wouldn't take all that much longer to check the various engine bearings and replace as necessary, especially since you'd most likely want to check for bent connecting rods anyway given the way you said the engine only turned over so far when you last tried to start it.

All in all though, an engine swap would probably be simplest though, so good luck if that's what you decide.

[Scott Larson]

I'd probably view that one as a "while you're in there" situation. If the engine was going to have to be torn down far enough to replace the head gaskets, it wouldn't take all that much longer to check the various engine bearings and replace as necessary, especially since you'd most likely want to check for bent connecting rods anyway given the way you said the engine only turned over so far when you last tried to start it.

All in all though, an engine swap would probably be simplest though, so good luck if that's what you decide.

Bent connecting rods would only occur if the hydraulic-lock was caused by flooded cylinders, not a flooded crankcase as indicated by blown main seals. The problem you'll encounter here is the possibility of stretched rod cap bolts or stretched rods, either of which will be catastrophic but highly unlikely as the main seals will act as a safety valve, so to speak. As far as teardown is concerned, replacing head gaskets only involves removing the heads. To inspect main or rod bearings, let alone to check for bent rods, requires a complete teardown necessitating engine removal. Blown main seals already makes for some extensive teardown. Engine replacement is the course I would take at this point, but that's just my opinion...

[Y33TREKker]

Bent connecting rods would only occur if the hydraulic-lock was caused by flooded cylinders, not a flooded crankcase as indicated by blown main seals. ..

All it would take is one flooded cylinder, and with a blown head gasket, seems very possible.

[Scott Larson]

So your hypothesis is not only a blown head gasket in the critical area of the coolant system/combustion chamber interface, but also a breach between the coolant system/crankcase interface, thereby flooding the block; seems highly unlikely...

[johnnyapollo]

I blew the head gasket on a 1975 Peugeot 504 Station Wagon back in the early 80's (paid a grand for it). Found out due to the lower hose blowing from the pressure but still managed to limp it home about 25 miles using tape - had to keep stopping and adding tape and water. I later pulled the head and it sat for about a year - long enough for the cylinders to fill with rust. I ended up selling the car for the same $500 (for the parts) - the buyer took fine sandpaper and removed the rust and used a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil to flush the block - put the heads back on it (with a gasket set) and it cranked right back up - it was still running with little or no loss of compression years later. Of course, that engine was more like a tractor motor than what we have, but the point is, your experiences may vary.

-- John

[Starglider]

I'm looking at buying a salvage US VehiCROSS, shipping it to the UK, and combining it with my JDM to make a hybrid mutant UberCROSS (e.g. swap in the leather seats, nicer trim and maybe cruise control you guys got as well as the engine). Cheaper than I thought, might be viable. The best looking salvage cars are the flood damaged ones, but how much mechanical damage is that likely to cause?

[Scott Larson]

That all depends on how high the water got. If it was high enough to enter the intake, that's bad. Also remember your TOD module and most sensors are below that level as well as the ECM and transmission, transfer case and differential breathers. The other factor is how long was it flooded and how long has it been since it was flooded and what was done immediately after to help mitigate the damages. It's always a gamble to buy flood damaged vehicles. There's a darn good reason why insurance companies total 'em even though they may look undamaged...

[Starglider]

That all depends on how high the water got. If it was high enough to enter the intake, that's bad. Also remember your TOD module and most sensors are below that level as well as the ECM and transmission, transfer case and differential breathers. The other factor is how long was it flooded and how long has it been since it was flooded and what was done immediately after to help mitigate the damages. It's always a gamble to buy flood damaged vehicles. There's a darn good reason why insurance companies total 'em even though they may look undamaged...

Well, I am mostly looking for the block, seats and cladding panels; the former should be pretty bulletproof and the later should be 'what you see is what you get'. Everything else on the car would be bonus spare parts.