Timing Belt Change Question

[Dmitrikr]

sitting for two month? is that enough to drain oil (pressure) off valve lifters? might need long time cranking to build up oil pressure for valve lifters?

[Lfen]

I think u guessed it. Crankshaft 180 off. I did the same thing once and had the same results as you. Smoke. Rotated crank 180 and fired up.

[PK]

Timing is 180 degrees off.

I guess you didn't count the number of teeth you moved the crankshaft and then move the cams the same number??

Dmitrikr - no hydraulic valve lifters in our engines. There are DOHC (direct overhead cam).

PK

[TexasProton]

PK, I followed the procedure for "When timing is lost", that procedure does not mention anything about counting teeth. I just lined up everything according to the video, but somehow I didn't get it right. I thought there was only one position for the right Cam to spring back to 12 O'clock, and only one position for the left Cam to spring back to 9 O'clock after you first line up the timing mark itched on the crankshaft sprocket...Is that false?

Lfen, you said you had the same situation, how did you exactly correct the issue...If I turn the Crankshaft 180 degrees, the itched timing mark on the Crankshaft sprocket will end up at 9 O'clock!! and the notch will end up lined up with the timing mark at 3 O'clock!!

Thankfully, I took tomorrow off so I wanted to make sure this nightmare was over!

Thank you all for your help

[TexasProton]

PK, I followed the procedure for "When timing is lost", that procedure does not mention anything about counting teeth. I just lined up everything according to the video, but somehow I didn't get it right. I thought there was only one position for the right Cam to spring back to 12 O'clock, and only one position for the left Cam to spring back to 9 O'clock after you first line up the timing mark itched on the crankshaft sprocket...Is that false?

Lfen, you said you had the same situation, how did you exactly correct the issue...If I turn the Crankshaft 180 degrees, the itched timing mark on the Crankshaft sprocket will end up at 9 O'clock!! and the notch will end up lined up with the timing mark at 3 O'clock!!

Thankfully, I took tomorrow off so I wanted to make sure this nightmare was over!

Note:
I definitely do not have permissions to load pictures, I'll be glad to email these pictures to someone who has access so they can load them

Thank you all for your help

[Lfen]

What happened in my case was I changed the front oil seal, so when I removed the dampner and gear I lost timing. I was following the instructions to the link that I sent you, but also referring to the isuzu manual for confirmation. When it came to the crankshaft timing marks I noticed a discrepancy between the two. They were opposite. So I went with the manual. When I turned it over, the engine did exactly as you described. I then lined it up exactly as the link with the pics that I sent you, meaning 180 degrees turned forward. So the green dot on the gear lined up with the mark on the drivers side and the little halfmoon cutout lined up on the passenger side dot. Exactly as the pics in the link. It Started right up.

But reading your post it sounds like your crankshaft may be right.

So you must have one of the cams off. So starting on the right camshaft (passenger side). Rotate it clockwise and let it spring back until the pulley lines up with timing mark on the head (10 o'clock position) this took about 6-7 turns to spring back for me till marks lined up and stayed lined up on its own. (No tension)

On the Left (Drivers side) all I had to do was rotate it 90 degrees to the timing mark at the 2 o'clock position, but this cam had to be held in place with a strap or by someone else while I installed the belt. Double checked all the marks before popping tensioner and was good to go.

So only one Cam will spring into place and stay lined up, the RIGHT. While the LEFT has to be held in place!

So not sure by reading your post, but if you turned your Left cam until it sprung to the 2 o'clock position and stayed lined up on its own then that would be wrong. The mark on the sprocket should be around the 12 o'clock position before you rotate it and after you rotate it to the 2 o'clock position it will have tension on it.

[Cobrajet]

Just a quick note... Even if the crank is correctly lined up, and the cams are correctly lined up, isn't there a possibility that the crank is actually on the wrong phase in relation to the cams. (360 degrees out? compression stroke versus exhaust stroke)

[TexasProton]

Thanks for your reply Lfen. Two notes based on your reply above:

1- When the left Cam sprung to 9 O'clock (I am using the 12 O'clock reference as in the manual) and after I turned it 90 degrees to line up with the timing mark on the head, it stayed on the mark without me having to hold on to it...I noticed the same thing in the video, so I did not make too much of that

2- The Notch (Halfmoon cutout) on the Crankshaft sprocket never lined up with the green dot on the driver side even though the itched timing mark on the Crankshaft sprocket was perfectly lined up with the timing mark on the oil pump cover at 3 O'clock

I wish I could load the damn pictures...I have no idea what I need to do in order to have permission to load pictures! CStoops sent me a screen shot of his screen, and it was definitely not what I see on my screen, the "Gallery Link", does not exist for me

Thanks for your reply.

[TexasProton]

Good question Gregg, I wondered about that myself, but all the instructions said, was to line up the Crankshaft at 3 O'clock, then line up the Cams. The instructions never mentioned how many times to rotate the Crankshaft. So it seems there is a missing step!! Now I have no idea, how to be sure about anything I am doing!!

The timing belt change was supposed to be the easiest thing about the rest of the big job of putting the VX back together after the deer did its damage, now it is a pure ongoing nightmare!!

I have got to figure this out soon, we are down to one running vehicle, and that one needs some repairs pretty soon.

[Lfen]

I edited my post to help answer your question, please reread bottom portion. But if you sprung both camshafts to the timing marks and they both stayed on There own and you put belt on, that would be wrong

As far as pictures: Go to the top of this page. Click gallery. Then at the top of that page go to gallery links, click. Look for upload photo. Upload photos to your gallery. Then go in your gallery find pic, click copy then go to post and paste

[TexasProton]

Just a thought based on Lfen & Gregg's comments: If I line up all the marks again, remove the belt , rotate the Crankshaft one full revulsion...Would that give me the 180 degree adjustment I need, or it too late for that too. if it is, how can I make sure the Crankshaft is in the right cycle position...Whatever that might be. Is that where the number one piston needs to be at the top, or is it the # 2 piston since the timing is lost?

Thank you

[TexasProton]

Thanks Lfen...Regarding the Gallery, here is everything on the menu bar...No "Gallery Link" menu!!

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[Lfen]

Don't know why you don't have it. At the very top of this page I have a gallery tab right after the home tab....

[TexasProton]

Ok guys, my head is about to blow up here!! Here is what's going on NOW:

1- I removed the timing belt
2- I removed the #2 spark plug (Driver side closest to the front of the engine on even bank)
3- I inserted a ratchet extension bar in the spark plug hole and let it rest on the top of the piston
4- I rotated the engine manually and watched the extension bar go up and down the spark plug hole
5- The only time the #2 cylinder is at TDC (Top-Dead-Center) is when the "Halfmoon cutout" on the crankshaft sprocket lined up perfectly with the timing mark on the oil pan cover at 3 O'clock.
6- The itched line with green dot on the crankshaft sprocket always lined up with the timing mark on the oil pan cover at BDC (Bottom-Dead-Center)

What the Hell is going on?? What am I missing? Which one is the timing mark, the halfmoon cutout, or the itched line with the green dot on the outer service of the Crankshaft sprocket. I really am not that dumb, I am just totally confused at this point!!! Too much contradiction!!!

I am not going to put that timing cover back on, until I am 100% sure that it will be another 100K before I have to go through this again!!

Thank you for all your help

[TexasProton]

Here is where things get totally confusing for me, but before I go on, let me make sure we are all meaning the same thing when we say the same thing:

1- Engine Timing Marks= The two hash marks on the engine heads at 10Am & 2PM. (or at 12 O'clock if you are using the terminology in the shop manual) and the hash mark on the oil pump cover across from the Crankshaft sprocket at 3 O'clock
2- Pulleys Timing Marks: The three hash marks itched on the two Cam Pulleys and the Crankshaft sprocket and have a dot of green paint to make them stand out.
3- TDC Notch = Halfmoon cutout on the Crankshaft Sprocket

Now that we have a "terminology Base", here is where things get fuzzy for me! I watched that video on you Tube at least 20 times (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjhNO...93A76C&index=2)

1- He first says to make sure the Crankshaft sprocket is set to TDC, that means the TDC Notch is aligned with the Engine Timing mark at 3 O'clock

2- He said to align the two Cam pulleys while Crankshaft sprocket is in the TDC position

3- Here is where it gets Fuzzy...He said to align the dotted line on the timing belt so it would align with the TDC notch at 180 degrees from the TDC position...I thought the Crankshaft sprocket was not to be rotated after the CAM pulleys were aligned as in step 2

SO, is this the right way? Align the CAM pulleys with #2 piston at TDC, install the belt on the CAM pulleys, then rotate the Crankshaft sprocket 180 degrees without moving the two CAM pulleys
until the TDC notch is 180 degrees from the TDC position (which puts it at 9 O'clock) then align the dotted line on the belt with the TDC notch at the 9 O'clock.

Is that correct? Have I lost my mind? Everyone has been saying not to move the Crankshaft sprocket after you set he CAM Pulleys, but the TDC Notch can't be at TDC and at 9 O'clock at the same time...Houston...We have a big problem!!