Timing Belt Change Question

[jasonm621]

All I can tell you is that when I did mine (Post #19 on this thread) the timing marks on the belt fell on these 3 positions: The green dot on both of the camshaft pulleys at the 10 & 2 o' clock position as you mentioned. And the 3rd line fell on the half moon cutout on the crankshaft sprocket. I think as long as you have set your camshafts in the correct position (as it sounds like you have) and the lines on the belt are on the positions as mentioned. Then im %97 sure you should be good to go. If im wrong then you use the other mark on the crankshaft pulley. Really you have a %50 chance of using the right mark on the crankshaft. But from reading the past posts it seems like im not the only one who used the half moon cutout to line the timing belt mark.

Same here, the Notch on the green dot (passenger side) and line to line on drivers side, exactly as these pics but opposite manual, but worked for me. If you try lining it up the way the manual shows it won't work, found at the hard way

[TexasProton]

I think the next step I need to do is take the head covers off and see if the marks on the gears line up per the second grainy video...I am just getting tired of guessing wrong!

I plan on trying to crank the engine with the timing cover off, and without putting back the Crankshaft pulley and the 24mm nut. I'm also going to loop the transmission hose between the two transmission lines, so the oil won't squirt everywhere when I crank the engine. I'm only going to do so to see if it will start, so if it starts, it will be for a few seconds...Does anyone see a problem with this approach?

I'm just sick to my core of taking things apart and putting them back together, then taking them apart again

Note:
I need the site moderator to look into why I am unable to load pictures...The "Gallery Links" menu NEVER shows up for me when I click on the "Gallery" menu according to the instructions

[jasonm621]

If you want to be sure i don't see a problem with taking the valve cover off to confirm the dots on the idler gear and timing gears line up. However if you are going to crank the engine you need to hook up the intake parts first and any other sensors you may have unplugged. So make sure that anything that has a plug is plugged in, otherwise your engine probably wont even think about running and if it does you'll probably get CEL's up the wazoo. I dont know what dash lights youll get if you dont have the accessory belt on: you'll probably get a CEL or idle issues if the power steering pump doesnt have any pressure. Same goes with the alternator not being hooked up.
Honestly if you insist on cranking the engine and it does run, i wouldnt run your water pump dry for more than 30 seconds.
If you are really questioning your judgement id say that taking off your valve cover would answer more questions than turning the engine over, and it will take less time...

[TexasProton]

Thanks Jason, I guess the part I am not clear on is whether you adjust the Cams to their prospective timing hash marks while the #2 cylinder is at TDC, then you turn the Crankshaft 180 degrees to line up the belt at the TDC notch at 9 O'clock and the timing mark at 3 O'clock. The last time I did it, I started with the timing hash mark on the Crankshaft aligned with the timing mark on the oil pump cover a 3 O'clock, and the TDC notch already at the 9 O' Clock, but that did not work!

Last night, I moved the #2 cylinder to TDC, aligned the Cams, moved the Crankshaft 180 degrees so the TDC notch was at the 9 O'clock position, then aligned all the belt marks with their prospective marks the Cam pulleys and Crankshaft sprocket. I have not cranked the engine, because I have ZERO confidence in anything I am doing now, because I am not doing it from a position of knowledge...I'm just guessing!!)

When I turned the LH CAM, it sprung to 9 O'clock position on its own. I then turned it another 90 degrees to align it with the Timing hash mark on the Head, but it stayed there without me having to keep a ratchet on it...I was told that should not happen, and it should try to spring back!!! It didn't...So where does that leave me? I saw the same thing in that grainy video:
http://www.vehicross.info/misc/timing_belt/timing2.wmv

I don't know if I am just making this simple process more complicated than it has to be, or maybe this simple process is not that simple...

[jasonm621]

Once you turn the drivers side camshaft that additional 90 degrees to the timing mark the camshaft will stay there, However it doesn't take much force for it to spring back. Like I sad before it sounds like your camshaft pulleys are in the correct position but the only thing that is questionable is what mark do you use on the crankshaft? Luckly you have two things going for you: 1. Its a non-interference engine, so you wont bend valves if you crank the engine over. 2. You have a 50% chance of getting it done right if you just flip a coin and pick a mark to line your belt on.
Pick a mark to put your belt on and take 20 minutes to take the valve cover off. confirm that the dots on the idler gear and cam gear are aligned. Slowly turn the engine while you look down the spark plug hole and confirm that the valves are moving accordingly for all 4 strokes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGj8OneMjek
It should be pretty obvious if something isnt looking right ie. if the intake valve is open and the piston is moving up then you know to use the other mark on the crankshaft pulley. Once you confirm youre on the right mark button the engine up fill with coolant and turn it over!

[TexasProton]

Thanks Jason, that's exactly what I'll do tomorrow evening after I get off work. By the way, I followed the instructions that said to turn the Crankshaft so the TDC notch is at 3 O'clock, then Turned the crankshaft two full turns after I installed the belt, but the timing marks on the Cam did not align back, which tells us the timing is still incorrect.

So we all will find out tomorrow what the real deal is.

Note: I took spark plug # 1 off, and it was socked with engine oil all the way to the top of its threads...that concerned me a lot, I hope I didn't cause another problem!

[Lfen]

TexasProton I believe that you have everything correct except for your
left Cam(driver side ). When you state that you had it sprung to the 9 o'clock position before rotating it to the timing mark, is this in relation to the timing mark on the head or a actual clock?
When the manual states to rotate the camshaft until it springs to the 9 o'clock position it is in reference to the timing mark on the head which means at the 11 O'CLOCK position on a clock. This is where mine was at. Then when you you rotate it again to line it up to the actual timing mark on the head, it will not spring back, requiring you to hold it in place while the belt is installed. This is exactly how I did mine.

Also when you go to fire it up you don't need to crank it over for very long you will know right away of its right. It should fire right up, if not then you are off. Thinking that's why your plug was fouled

Just a note: When I timed my cams this way it started at BDC it would not start at TDC

[TexasProton]

Thanks for your reply Fen. All my references to the clock are based on the book reference, that the mark on the head is at 12 O'clock, not the actual clock. When you rotate the LH Cam, there is one more spot passed the 9 O'clock (per the book clock reference) and before the timing hash mark on the Head. This must be what you are talking about...Is that correct? Once I use that reference, then my proof is if I turn the Crankshaft two full turns, then all the timing marks should line up perfectly every two turns. This will put the TDC notch at 9 O'clock and the timing hash mark at 3 O'clock at the Crankshaft sprocket...does that sound correct?

Thanks again

[Lfen]

Ok here you go I found the Isuzu Technial Service Bulletin for this Procedure (IB00S005) and it verifies exactly what I have been trying to Say. Please read very carefully. Lots of ads here so you might find a better site. But you need to start around step 20. START on the bottom of the 7TH web page.

http://workshop-manuals.com/isuzu/ro..._installation/

[Lfen]

Here it is on another site. Same thing less pages but pics arent as good.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...IHKBNjvxbfqtLA

[Lfen]

And If I am correctly understanding your question. The answer is Yes. But please refer to the TSB above. This is what I was trying to explain, but not very well. Sorry

[Lfen]

The bottom Pic Here is what we are talking about. The White line on the Cam Sprocket. This is where it should be after the final spring/sprung position at 9:00, then when you turn it 90 degrees more it will be lined up with with the timing mark on Left head. But you will have to hold it there because it will try to rotate counterclockwise back to the 9:00 position. I held mine in place with a long breaking bar and a rubber bungee cord attached because I was doing this by myself, no help.

[TexasProton]

Thank you so much for the info Fen. looking at the bottom picture, that's where the Cam sprung back to, but when I rotated 90 degrees to match the top picture, it stayed there on its own. I think the safest thing to do is to the following:

1- Remove the LH Valve cover
2- Set the Crankshaft sprocket to BDC
3- Set the RH CAM
4- Set the LH Cam and confirm that when the CAM springs back that the timing marks are aligned on the gears, then move it another 90 degrees to align it with the timing mark on the engine
5- Install the timing belt
6- Rotate the Crankshaft Sprocket 2 full turns to confirm all the timing marks are still aligned with the marks on the engine

I'll report back this evening

Thank you so much for all your help

[TexasProton]

Not to beat a dead horse here Fen, but figure # 9 under step # 21 shows the TDC notch at the 3 O'clock position (Cylinder #2 at TDC position), you said you did yours at BDC, because the above did not work for you.

I must be missing something, but I don't know what it is. I tried it both ways at TDC and at BDC with the same results. I think I agree with you about the LH Cam being the issue. I'll follow the steps in my previous reply this evening

Thanks again

[Lfen]

I was expecting you to ask me that, lol. Honestly I'm not smart enough to answer the how and why, I'm still trying to figure that one out.

But I have my suspicions.

(1) When I did mine I was following that first Link I gave you where it was done with the Dampner at BDC from the beginning, so when I popped my belt and the CamShafts sprung, they were already timed to BDC

(2) I believe that our engines can be timed from both TDC and BDC as long as the Camshafts are timed accordingly. And this is why there seems to be so much contradiction.

(3) So whatever you had your crankshaft/dampner set to when you popped the belt thats where I would start.

So the bottomline is that with the TSB above you can now know for a fact that your cams are timed right! Now its just a 50/50 shot with the Crankshaft as far as TDC or BDC.
In my case I rotated to TDC from BDC because of the manual and that Didn't work, so I rotated it back to where it was originally and success. For me and jasonm621 we started at BDC and stuck with it and it worked for us.

If you were at TDC then start there. Worst case scenario is you might have to rotate your crank 180 degrees, but you will be on the road again.