Xmas Wishlist

[Apostle]

EDITED: by me, keep my views to myself

[Heraclid]

Apostle, I'm not trying to start anything here, but you made the biggest deal out of it so far with that post. You make a good point though in your own way - people are indeed way too worried about offending others to the point that they are too timid to stand for anything at all, and that's a real shame.

ADDENDUM: As you see, I saw it before you edited it, but I'll keep it all secret.

[Apostle]

HA too late Hera, i already edited it

edit: and i saw yours while you were. it just gets me all the politically correct stuff in this world. wasnt like this when i was a kid (way back when) everyone got along with everyone

[Heraclid]

And you're quite right. As a matter of fact I myself once made reference to a tree hugger, meaning an environmentalist wacko. But someone went off on me for offending them on account of their religion, which evidently involved worshipping trees. I hadn't said anything about worshipping trees, but you know how it goes. I am convinced there are tons of people running around just looking for a way to be offended.

By the way, the whole environmental movement is absurd to me, because I think we're all pretty much environmentalists in the sense that none of us are hell-bent on destroying our natural resources. There's nothing wrong with wanting to preserve and protect within reason (ya know, don't let firemen fighting forest fires die to save a minnow, and it did happen), but so much of that stuff goes way beyond any real concern for the environment. Heck, some of them are bona fide terrorists who get their kicks burning Hummer dealerships and ski lodges to the ground. Do a little search for the Earth Liberation Front website.

[WyrreJ]

Heck, if you're an atheist and you end up being wrong, it isn't me who'll have to pay the penalty,

Shades of Pascal's wager there. But he could still be wrong and you could still pay the penalty too.

[WyrreJ]

Originally posted by Apostle
it just gets me all the politically correct stuff in this world. wasnt like this when i was a kid (way back when) everyone got along with everyone

Dunno what you said originally, but everytime I hear someone express that view it reminds me of my childhood as a minority white kid. There were plenty of situations in which my interests and values were not taken into consideration at all, both on the micro, personal scale and the macro societal scale. Plenty of non-white people didn't think there was a problem at all, they all thought everything was hunky-dory and everybody was just getting along. Truth was that I and others like me just didn't have enough of voice to get the respect that others took for granted.

[Heraclid]

It was kind of tongue-in-cheek. After all, you can blast some holes in Pascal's Wager. But you can in just about anything. Philosophy is kinda funny that way.

I don't think Apostle meant anything at all like promoting the notion that the majority should rule and to hell with the minority. That is precisely why democracy is bad. Democracy is having two wolves and one rabbit and asking them to decide what's for lunch. Our country was actually founded as a constitutional republic, and its founders were none too fond of democracy.

[WyrreJ]

I didn't mean anything so drastic an accusation as that, just that when you are "on top" it is pretty easy to remain ignorant of the conditions on the underside. Kind of like the famous, "Let them eat cake" quote.

[Heraclid]

True, but I just don't see how it ties in to the politically correct thing though.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by Heraclid
I don't think anybody is attacking atheists here. Heck, if you're an atheist and you end up being wrong, it isn't me who'll have to pay the penalty, so to each their own.

Hmm... I was trying to show that it doesn't really matter what your religious beliefs are, that the whole idea that you had to actually reply with this shows me that you have a bit of a hard time accepting others that don't believe in what you do. (Not exactly because of what you said, but because you had to say it).

And, I wouldn't mind seeing what Apostle wrote as it obviously had to either do with my statement or the replies there after. Besides not staying with the original subject and, as stated before, being a hypocrite, I think it's interesting what the religious folk would say when someone says they are a atheist.

I just came back from vacation in London. While there I paid a little visit to the house of Charles Darwin... interesting tour.

[Heraclid]

I guess I misconstrued your earlier comments by thinking you were interpreting something as being anti-atheist, and I just tried to cool your jets. You were actually just anticipating a negative reaction before you got one.

If you think I had to say it, well you had to say it first - you said if someone doesn't believe as you do, then it is their problem and not yours. Why then is my saying the same thing you said after the fact a problem? I'm not trying to be combative here. Just trying to point out that this need not be so adversarial.

I guess my earlier statement pretty much says I'm not an atheist. But the whole spirit of the comment in the first place was that it doesn't bother me if you are. In other words, whatever you believe is perfectly fine by me because I feel you have a right to believe it and it doesn't infringe on my rights, so that's perfectly cool by me.

As for the edited post, the gist of it is that Apostle is tired of political correctness, and that's the sum total of it. If he should ever wish to elaborate, fine, but it's not my place to do so for him.

[WyrreJ]

Originally posted by Heraclid
True, but I just don't see how it ties in to the politically correct thing though.

That the "good old days" before the PC movement weren't necessarily so good for people not part of the mainstream. Certainly there are plenty of cases where the PCness has swung to the oppossite extreme, but in many cases there is still plenty more ground to be covered in the name of equality. For example, plucked from today's headlines - gay marriage.

[Heraclid]

Ah, okay. I would just say that those who are not a part of the mainstream have always been at a disadvantage and I don't think it's gotten any better as a result of anyone ramming political correctness down our throats. I also think that many proponents of political correctness would have it so that the mainstream was defined by something that is actually on the fringes of popular thought.

It's all very mixed up. Political correctness is, at its core, opposed to individualistic free thinking. It's aim is to not offend anyone, and while on the face of it that may sound nice, it is fantasy and reality doesn't work that way. That is because in reality everything, however mundane, still offends someone and the only way to avoid that is to take no definite stand on anything. Perfect political correctness would require you to be a virtual vegetable with no independent thought processes and no concept of right and wrong.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by Heraclid
You were actually just anticipating a negative reaction before you got one.

First of all, I wasn't anticipating a negative comment, and yes, I did get one. I was hoping people here would take my comment (about it being the persons problem who has the actual problem with the situation) and see it as a more broad statement rather than a defensive one. I respect people's religious beliefs. I see the history behind Christianity and other religions. I think I can certainly comprehend why people would believe in it. I didn't grow up believing one way or another.

This is all pretty dumb since it has nothing to do with the VehiCROSS or the original subject, but you do get to see some of the truth behind people. Politics and reigion. Jeez

[TDAWG]

It amazing how 1 person make a comment and some people get upset and have to try and correct that person for it. We all make mistakes and not all of us are perfect. If I post the word SPIC or XMAS I understand that it maybe offensive well you know what sorry but the last time I checked America is suppose to stand for home of the free. Where you have the freedom of speech. Alot of my friends and family always ask me why do is it I don't get upset when a person calls me a SPIC there are 2 reasons the 1st being to me it only stands for Spanish, Person, In, Charge and 2nd is other than the 1st it has no real meaning in my vocabulary. I don't see how is it that instead of just letting it go and moving along we always have to bash eachother. We are all grown ups (I would hope) let's just drop it and move on. We are what we are and we say what we say. We all have different beliefs and different views. Their are more important things in this world to worry about then the fact that someone spelled XMAS instead of Christmas. The funny thing about posting anything is that since no one can see the expression a person makes when writting anything is thatit can always be taken out of text. with my .02 added let move on.