Fluids question...

[joe-yamma]

Originally posted by Joe_Black
Not to beat up on the Amsoil guys, but Mobil-1 ATF has a proven track record (military, industrial and agricultural history) that's hard to ignore. Amsoil is the only other true synthetic, but you really have to wade through their literature to figure out which of their products are or aren't using synthetic base-stocks. IIRC they (Amsoil) have no background or track record with military, industrial and agricultural service.

I'm not sure if these statements are entirely correct...
http://www.amsoil.com/company.htm

I've done a lot of research on synthetic lubricants and I've decided to use Amsoil in my Jeep, VX, Jetta (wife's), and my R1.
I'm wondering what makes you guys so into Mobil 1?

I've been reading Mobil 1's website and they mention nothing positive about extended drain intervals. Actually, they mention that it is possible, but they don't recommend it as they say to follow your manufacturer's drain intervals.
Amsoil touts the quality of their oils as well as the extended drain intervals.

IMO, extended drain intervals is one of the main pro's of using synthetic fluids... right?

I don't work for Amsoil or anything like that, I just started using their stuff about a year ago and I really like it.
I just don't understand why some of you guys are so big on Mobil 1 when Amsoil is just as good if not better.

Joe

[skullcap]

Cyrk, now that Horton is out of the running, what Isuzu mechanic(s) are you using?

[Cyrk]

Dean @ Lou Sobh in Duluth.

[Tone]

Mobil 1 is easy to get and Sams sells a case of 6 for $23. I personally would rather change it frequently and make sure all the suspended particles come OUT of the engine. Extended drain intervals like Amsoil offers should be accompanied by regular oil analysis, something I don’t have time for. I’ve used Amsoil and think it is great, but expesive.

While racing jet skiis for over a decade, I used their 100:1 oil mix and never seized a motor - no other 2 stoke oil has ever come close to offering that thin a mix.

[Joe_Black]

I've been reading Mobil 1's website and they mention nothing positive about extended drain intervals. Actually, they mention that it is possible, but they don't recommend it as they say to follow your manufacturer's drain intervals.

That's because there ISN"T anything positive about extended drail intervals. Think about it: What does oil do in an engine? Lubricates, cools and cleans. First, lets look at the "cleans" part of oils job. Oil helps clean your engine by holding contaminants in a suspension (itself) and passing them through filter media to remove as much as possible. This is an ongoing and continuous process, although the filter doesn't get everything. Here's where we hit the first bump in extended drain intervals: Where does all the contaminants go? The filter? It can only hold so much before it becomes ineffective and either fails, allowing all sorts of stuff back into the engine, or begins hampering the engine's ability to circulate oil. So then you'd need to change your filter with an engine full of dirty oil on a regular basis, which is messier and more difficult than just changing your oil like you should. So do these oils that tout longer drain intervals have some magic susbstance to convert those contaminants to something harmless? Something that won't block filter media and change their inherit abrasive properties? Nope. They won't, the manufacturers just use the fact that the synthetic oil itself has properties of longevity to sell you on the false promise you'll save money using their product over a competitors. Mobil-1 doesn't do that. They don't need to.

Now, back to our contaminant-laden, yet still slippery engine oil. Since we've de-bunked the magical self-cleaning properties of "extended run" oils lets look at the next bump in this thought process and oil's other important job: Cooling. Our engine oil does a pretty good job in moving heat away from vital engine components in its lubrication cycle. But if we've now burdened it with the additional job of hauling around a mass of foreign matter because we're too frugal to change it, then its thermal properties as a whole degrade significantly. The wonderful synthetic BY ITS SELF has fantastic thermal properties, but now it's loaded up with contaminants. What are their thermal properties? Hmmm, lotta carbon in that suspension, definitely not a good thermal carrier. So, in addition to reducing its ability to clean the engine effectively we've now stripped away our oil's ability to cool as well.

Do the math, think in all the circles you care to and then stare at your wallet. More frequent oil changes (no matter what brand) or more frequest maintenance? You can read all the marketing hype to convince yourself otherwise, but the writing is on the wall of every maintenance shop in the world: Frequent and consistent oil changes make for a well maintained engine.

The choices I make come from real-world research and performance. That's how I came to be such a Mobil-1 fan. I don't buy Exxon or Mobil gas, or any of their other products for that matter. But the professionals in the aviation, marine, racing and many other fields chose Mobil-1 for a reason. I didn't buy then, I found out why they were using it and THEN I switched. From the Oil Sands of Alberta to the Goonyella Mine in Australia, Mobil-1 is a preferred industrial lubricant. Folk in the big $$$ industries can't afford to use what's flashy or has the best advertising gimmick, their day and dollar depend on production and reliability. Oh, and regular oil changes at specified intervals based on conditions.

I'll stick with and keep recommending Mobil-1.

[johnnyapollo]

I've changed my drain interval from 3k to 5k miles (topping up about every 1k miles when needed), when I changed to Mobile 1. I changed the interval based upon findings of this very interesting website:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

Looking at the latest data, Amsol appears to be superior to Mobile 1 (however we should wait until the end of the trial to make a definitive judgement). I'm also interested in what findings they will have using a regular petroleum based oil.

I agree with all that Joe states in the thread above (I based my decision to go synthetic on frequent talks with him on the subject). I do think that the "every 3k miles" that we have ingrained in our car-crazy mentality is caused by Jiffy-Lube hype - however for the cost isn't it worth the extra insurance?

Since 5k is still within the recommended interval for our trucks/engines, I think the better quality oil allows me to extend the interval a bit. I would not recommend going to the extremes that they do in the testing on that site, however.

-- Best, John

[joe-yamma]

Very good points guys!

Although I love the Amsoil oil, I must say that it is kind of expensive and hard to get sometimes.
I will say that I am considering Mobil 1 in the diffs and tranny because it is so readily available at Wal-mart/Sam's club.

While I see your points, I must say that I don't see a problem using the Amsoil in the motor over 5,000 miles. If you follow the instructions, that would be a filter change every 7,500 or 6 months, whichever comes first and a full oil change at 15,000 or year.
I think in a normal daily-driver use engine, that will be good enough to get the suspended particles out of the motor. Now I'm not talking about a Fram filter here... I'm saying a quality filter such as a Mobil 1, Wix, Hastings, or Amsoil filter.

John, very good site, by the way! I love it when they test out the different products to see if the company claims are really accurate!

Maybe I'm being too trusting of Amsoil and their extended interevals? Either way, I guess I'm gonna fall somewhere between the really long extended intervals and the normal change interval. One thing is for sure: I won't be changing it every 3000 miles. I think this is a waste.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate the friendly debate.

Joe

[joe-yamma]

Tone and Joe_Black: What intervals are you changing your fluids at? Engine oil, Tranny/TOD, and Diff's?

johnnyapollo: You said you changed to 5k for egine oil, but what about tranny/TOD and diff's?

Thanks!
Joe

[joe-yamma]

Hey Joe_Black... I actually went to Advance Auto and Wal-mart tonight to buy Mobil 1 ATF and gear lube to do my tranny, TOD, and diffs... Guess what? Neither place had anything but the motor oil!

Oh well, I guess I'll just head over to the local place that has Amsoil.

Do remember how much Mobil 1 ATF and gear lube is?

Thanks,
Joe

[migil]

Wal-Mart carries Mobil1 motor oil but definitivelly doesn't carry Mobil1 ATF, tranny lube or oil filter. You can get them at AutoZone.

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

My experience with debating on this topic has shown me that people tend to adhere to their beliefs on the subject as though it were a debate on religion.

I totally agree with Joe Black on the subject and Tone points out the importance of how readily available a product is to a potential consumer as well as oil analysis when dealing with extended change intervals.

I for one don't know off-hand where in my area one could buy either Amsoil or Royal Purple...as I've not crossed paths with either of these products. Mobil 1 Engine oils are readily available at WalMart, Sam's Club, Advance Auto, AutoZone, etc...

I use Mobil 1 SuperSyn in both my vehicles but I extended my change interval on the Fiero from 3k to 4.5k as it is a daily driver and accumulates lots of miles...right now grand total stands at 190,000 miles with oil analysis done after extending the change interval and revealing no negatives.

The VehiCross on the other hand tends to be driven on missions of relevance and recreation and is therefore not my daily driver.
Plus...she is My BABY, and gosh darn it all if I want to spoil her with 3k mile synthetic oil changes..so be it! My only complaint is that the local oil change facilities only offer either Pennzoil or Valvoline and the Dealer uses Quaker State. Also I use either Purolator's micro filtration available at Advance Auto or Mobil 1 filter available at AutoZone....so therefore....have ended up changing the oil & Filter myself!

[joe-yamma]

Jolly - I'm keeping an open mind... I guess I'm lucky in the fact that there is a motor supply co that carries Amsoil about 10 mintues from my house.

That'll probably infulence my decision the most.

Joe

[joe-yamma]

I know this thread is pretty old, but I came across this today and thought it had bearing on our conversation.

It's a comparison (by Amsoil) of Amsoil vs Mobil 1.

http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/letters2.htm

It could be total BS, but it's interesting.

Joe

[t2p]

JY:
.
I have seen that comparison ..... impressive ......
.
but I have also seen the comparisions of Mobil 1 vs traditional motor oils ....... and reasoned Mobil 1 was sufficient for me .....
.
hmmm ...... if it only had the sweet smell of Maxima Super M .....
.
t2p

[joe-yamma]

t2p,

Like I said, I don't know how much of it is bs, but i like the stuff.

I would probably be using Mobil 1 if I couldn't get Amsoil 10 minutes from my house.

My VX is actually at Bowser Isuzu (Century III, right off Route 51) right now getting a 30k service. (Actually I have 43k), but I couldn't find service records for my vehicle and decided to just take it into the dealership to get it done.

I gave them Amsoil ATF and gear lube. I'll let you know how it performs with those fluids in. (I already run Amsoil engine oil).

Maxima is sweet smelling stuff! Motul smells good too.

Joe