Pro/Con of Air intake Kit

[vettewars]

I have mucho experience with supercharging on the Thunderbird SC. I won't be modifying the VX until the wife hands it over to me (probably never).

I have an M90 supercharger, soon to be magnaported, but got big gains by installing an airtight ram air system, including an ugly 4 inch round pickup right to the front of the car airflow. In general, extensive air intake mods on the SC have produced perhaps hp gains of 40% over stock. So what has been reported here as 50hp increase AFTER air mods is not unrealistic. It must be proof of the poor air intake of stock design.

Ram air systems are only just being exploited and perfected in stock offerings now...especially bikes. You've seen the "batmobile" Pontiac Firebird, well it took me extensive mods to be able to run with that devil, which can take a C5 vette on the highway no problem because of its ram air.

There is NO one I know and I've done extensive research on ram air systems...that intelligently quantifies the improvement. Most get gains which show a car running cooler on a dyno because they put an industrial fan in front of the car.

On the highway, my boost gage goes from 7 lbs stock (because of headers, it's normally 12 lb stock) to 8 lbs around 90mph, to about 12lbs at 130mph. That's all FREE hp. If you recall, the old Grand Nationals got trememdous results from running the air intake out to the front of the car through a removed front headlight. I see possibilities for the VX in terms of working something to the front (but the wife deal, drats).

My bottom line experience ....do air intake and exhaust (drop cat, especially if SC, if possible) and by god supercharging is the best. For reliabilities sake I wouldn't go much past 50% hp increase though.

[jimbo]

Joe- Will do (although I'm usually in a rental car, can't stand that long drive getting down there).

How 'bout Royal Purple oil (it's what I used this past weekend). Do you really think it sucks? My engine sure seems quieter.

To be honest I'm one of those guys who's always a sucker for something expensive, exotic and hard to find (hence the VX). Someone could probably put a big stinky turd in a fancy purple package, sell it as the best car wax in the world for $30 a container and I'd probably buy it and give it a try. LOL ;Dp;

----------------------------

T2P - My VX is dark red like yours and started out in your area (Pittsburg) as a corporate rental/fleet car, if you can believe that.

It had very low miles and most of the miles went on in the first couple of months. I figure some executive got it for giggles on a long trip. It made its way back to PA (I'm the third owner) via a bank vice-president (real nice guy) who kept it in a rented garage in Boston and didn't drive it very much at all.

I'm lucky to have found it.

P.S. - Sorry I think I strayed way off topic.

[Joe_Black]

Don't get me started on that purple stuff! ;pp; I'm pretty much a Mobil-1 nut based on industry, aviation and motorsport real-world data and use. It's a true synthetic and has an unparalleled track record no other lubricant can touch, plain and simple.

[jimbo]

Joe, you've probably already seen this but I thought it was interesting. Mobil 1 did really good, but these guys probably won't get to testing Royal Purple for another year (bummer) : ;eekp; ;Dp; ;pp; ;Dp; ;eekp;

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

Can anyone tell it's Friday and I'm getting like absolutely no work done?

P.S. - I KNOW you're a Mobil 1 double-agent Joe. Your cover is blown.

[vettewars]

especially this green eared newbie.....

but I've been around A LOT of racing. What is raced bears virtually no resemblance to what you buy in the stores.

Fact - synthetics have not had widespread usage in racing until recently. I personally know people that race stock cars and many say they know NO ONE that uses synthetics. Most of its usage is part of promotions.

Fact, and I've verified this personally, add one quart of synthetic to 4 quarts of regular oil and it flows beautifully at 10 degrees. ..much better than straight dino oil. Thus one of the chief benefits of synthetics can be realized with only 20% blends (ever wonder why they come like that?)

For high performance cars, and particularly BMW believes this (and I've bought their Castrol TYS motorsport 10W-60, yes a full 50W range! at $8 a quart)....you need HIGH range for high performance. Running vettes and so forth on 10W-30W Mobile 1 and going like hell makes no sense whatsover.

Such much improved, high W rated oils have only been recently available at reasonable prices to the public.

Mobile 1- any 30W version ....well....every car I put it in....it always burns to some extent.

I've run into MANY hard core fans of CASTROL BMW standard 30W synthetic for BMW cars....so I've investigated that. They say they use it in all the "family cars" and it doesn't burn, doesn't affect gaskets, anywhere near what the Mobile 1 does. It's also reasonably priced from BMW.

Before you say I'm crazy....do your own personal experiment. Check your oil usage using mobile 1 and then do the same thing with Castrol bought from a BMW dealership. I've done this in several cars and there is a difference.

In one experiment, I took my wife's former truck, a 120k mile Blazer and ran it on Mobile 1. Sounded pretty much like a sewing machine. Under the BMW castrol, oil pressure was higher, and it didn't burn out like the mobile 1.

[jimbo]

So BMW has their own brand of Castrol oil?

Interesting.

Thanks for the real world info.

Is this what you usually use?

[t2p]

Synthetics have been used for years in Motorcycles ...... for so many years I can barely remember when I used a non-synthetic oil .......... early 70's maybe ........
.
F1 cars have also been on synthetics for years ........ minimum 20 years ........... probably more. Honda - when they dominated F1 years ago - adhered to the 'best' philosophy; they built or used the best available .... produced the best engine, used the best suppliers, had the best drivers. Honda used Mobil 1 oil.
.
I don't think I would use 'Stock Cars' as an example .... that is a sponser driven circuit ...... a different animal (they still run carburetors) ... and generally use what their sponsers tell them to run .........
.
many/most ? big diesel rigs now run synthetics ...... even 'old fart' farmers - many are using synthetics in their vintage tractors .....
.

[vettewars]

Many believe it's BETTER.....

When you think of how they obsess on service, etc, who knows actually....

I use 4 quarts of Castrol dinosaur 20-50W and 1 quart of the super synthetic 10W-60W in my 300hp Supercoupe. 207K miles of abuse attests to the fact that this is OK. That car has innumerable 1/4 mile runs and mucho street racing on it.

I use dino in the family cars, and switch to add 1 quart of synthetic only during Nov to Apr timeframe.

Oil changes pretty much every 2500.

Plenty of other info shows that dino oil is equivalent in lub potential to synthetic in all but extreme heat and I mean extreme. Dino also only begins to show ANY degradation over say 1500 miles.....and it's still well within safe ranges at 3000miles. You could achieve nearly EVERY benefit of less sludge and cleanliness simply by changing dyno oil every 1500 miles.

Your car normally would see bearing temps of say 170 degrees which is NO WHERE NEAR the benefit realized with synthetic. And what goes on your car really first?

[vettewars]

The Honda team et al does not use mobile one you buy in walmart at 10W-30W.

There is NO ONE in serious racing that uses anything but specially formulated race oil that you can't normally buy.

Point is....the stuff you buy on the shelf burns in 90% of all cars on the road. Up until about 4 or 5 years ago it also wreaked havoc on gaskets..

Try and factor that in when you think you're benefiting from mobile one and you're out playing racer and just blew a head gasket.

I personally believe you'll get more life out of your car if you simply pay the extra to run it on high test constantly. I can give you some reports on that if you're really interested.

A little known secret is that ALL motors run cooler, have more power using high test.

[morgan-tec]

Originally posted by marximus
i dont know much about air intakes so please educate me! my buddy just got one of those air intake kits off ebay and installed it into his rodeo. he tells me it increases his horsepower because it lets more air into the egine at a faster rateand... blah blah blah. i dont think he knows what he is talking about as much as i think he is just reciting what he was told. so clear this up for me. i want to know what the benifits of the air intake are, and what the drawback are(there must be some otherwise everyone would do this) ?

if i decide this is worth adding to my VX, where should i purchase one, or is there a specificone that fits the VX the best?

thanks
-mark

Back to the topic of the thread.....

My name is Mike and i build the Morgan-tec intakes a bunch of people on here have. AS far as the power increase, my intakes gain 10.5hp at the tires(yes i have dyno proof) this is with stock exhaust. Now you throw on a less restrictive exhaust like say Morgan-tec custom muffler, of any # of other mfg.s you can expect another 5-8hp at the tires. My kit will also gain you a little mpg depending on your driving habbits. So for an investment of >$300-$400 you can expect 15-18hp increase at the tires.
The drawbacks related to kits like this are the intake noise ( which i personally love) and a possible decrease in mpg due to your new lead foot syndrome due to the increased intake noise. Other than that i have not personally found any significant drawbacks to a mod like this. I have been running one of my kits on my Axiom for almost three two years now with no problems. Other than my kit and the hotshot kit which i dont even think is made anymore, there are no other bolt on kits avaiable for the VX and Axiom. If you are intrested or have any more ? please PM me, call 970-690-6856, or email me.

[Tone]

Please present the REAL data that supports your ’real world’ experience? Synthetics are miles above regular oils in longevity, increased lubricity (can you say less wear), and stability. I’m guessing you have never seen inside an engine that has run synthetics versus one that runs regular oil - BIG difference even with short change intervals.

BTW, motors may run cooler on higher octane buy they do NOT necessarily have more power - 2 much octane can actually decrease power. If there is not enough compression and spark to burn the higher octane fuel completely, it does not get the power out of the fuel. Look forward to those reports...

[jayfotos]

I run on Redline syn, but maybe switching to M1 or Royal P. I'm also switching out all my other lubes with syn(even though I did all this a 30k).

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by jayfotos
Nope, it's after I put in the intake. The first run is the SC with the stock airbox....Yea, I know....it blew away the guys that ran the dyno.

25% gain just from eliminating the airbox - that is absolutely phenomenal. I would never have suspected there would be that much pressure drop across the stock setup. It must be because of the s/c. That Rootes blower must be pumping a lot of air! How much boost are you running?

Your 50hp gain is on the low end where you wouldn't expect there would be much restriction, while the gain on top - where you'd expect to get the most benefit from a high-flow system - was "only" 11 hp. Weird.

Does the blower cut down on intake honk or is it just as loud as an aspro engine?

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by marximus
i want to know what the benifits of the air intake are, and what the drawback are(there must be some otherwise everyone would do this) ?

Sorry - I guess you did have a question hanging out there didn't you? I was in awe of that dyno chart and didn't give an answer. Actually I don't have an "answer" for you - just an opinion and you know what they say about opinions...

The benefit of those pod filter intake things is more power at high revs/large throttle openings. The drawbacks are (possibly) a slight decrease in power at lower rpms/small throttle openings due to loss of the Helmholtz effect created by the stock setup - and noise, noise, noise!

For a street driven, normally aspirated engine I'd say stay with the stock airbox because, while the power gain from losing the airbox will be minimal, the noise increase is quite noticable. If you want to get a sneak preview without spending any money just ride around with your airbox lid off. Don't forget to duct tape the filter in.

What is your motivation for wanting to modify the intake? If it's more power, let me ask you this: are you going around with your boot in the floor all the time now? I've found that just pressing a little harder on the right-most pedal will yeild more power - enough to get the blue lights flashing in my mirror if I push that pedal too much for too long. Power from the stock engine is not a speed limiting factor in my street driving experience. Traffic, the laws of the State and awareness of my lack of driving ability are the primary limiting factors. Even if I felt the need for more power during the brief periods I'm running WFO, it wouldn't be worth putting up with that intake noise 100% of the time for a few extra horsepower that I would tap into less than 1% of the time.

On the other hand if what you're seeking is attention - and you're not getting enough just by driving a VX - then by all means go for that honking intake. Just keep in mind that thereafter you won't know if people are staring at you because they think your VX is cool or because they think you're a nuisance...

NOTE: This is just my opinion based on street driving values/priorities. If you're racing your VX and fractions of a second count and you spend a lot of time at WOT and stealth doesn't matter then we're talking about a different scenario and my opinion would be different as well.

[kpaske]

Morgon-Tec -

I've currently got a PV muffler and a Calmini cone filter setup and although switching to the Calmini introduced a bit of underhood noise, I hardly notice it. The PV is what really makes it a loud machine. How do your intakes compare, noise-wise and HP-wise, to a regular cone filter setup?