Kerry has conceded

[tiggergreen]

There are groups out there and they target children. This has now happened to a friend and nephew in different parts of the country. A lot of people do not understand that homosexuality is a plague - while the gay community would like us all to believe that they are almost identical to heterosexuals when it comes to being a family unit, there are a lot of them that do not commit to one partner.

In the not too distant past, there were bath houses frequented by gay men and there were a lot of "anonymous" sexual unions taking place. In fact, this is why AIDS spread so quickly among the homosexuals... One man could have sex with twenty different partners in one day... And lets be frank about what they are doing to one another - sodomy... That is just plain disgusting. And yes, my nephew is now off the deep end - I have seen a great change in his life even if he is blind to it. I don't care about adults hanging around homosexuals - I am concerned about children doing the same.

I also believe Homosexuality is a choice - in fact, I compare it to alcoholism - except it is worse because a lot of homosexuals refuse to believe they have a problem and try to tell the world that they don't. What frightens me is that it is working... They need to realize that it is a problem and seek help. I am here for anyone seeking to remove themselves from this type of situation. I love all my fellow man and want everyone to be happy. I just know that wickedness never was happiness...

And here is the truth about marriage. I know it is true - I have asked God and he has told me that it is true - you can do the same. If you do not believe in God, then I don't understand why - because this Earth is a huge testimony of His existence. The first marriage was performed by God uniting Adam and Eve - it was an Eternal marriage - one that was not broken by the bonds of death. Later, this ceremony became secularized and the term "Until death do you part" became a part of the ritual marking that the marriage was not really recognized by God.

And I am tired of the whole "open mind, closed mind" argument. This is used by everyone when they do not have any other way of winning an argument. I have enjoyed reading everyone's opinion here (except when name-calling enters the fray) and I will continue to enjoy debating and talking with anyone about these deeply significant topics. I love hearing another's take on these matters and hope that everyone will continue to do so without making it a personal attack.

Brent

[SPAZZ]

all I heard is ....Bla, bla, bla, Bush is a dirty POS!!!!!!!!!!

[WyrreJ]

On gay adoption and other "non-traditional forms of child acquisition:"

1) Gay people do not have a monopoly on deep-seated emotional problems.

2) If a couple, or really any grouping of one or more people, feel so strongly about having a child that they are willing to go through the elaborate, expensive and emotionally wrenching process of adoption, that is a pretty good indication that the child will be well cared for and deeply loved. Which has got to be 100x better than growing up an orphan, or in an unloving and abusive household.


On the "choice to be gay:"

Tiggergreen, do you believe God gave free will to man alone, or do animals have free will too? If only man has free will, then how do you explain homosexual behaviour among animals?

On marriage coming from God:

How do you explain all the people who have been marrying for tens of thousands of years and who have never even heard of the Judeo-Chirstian God? I'm pretty sure that they wuld strongly disagree that their marriage has anything to do with your God.

[jimbo]

Now that we've got most of this stuff worked out do ya think we could all just redo the election and get rid of the bushmeister?

[Dallas4u]

I am just going to agree to disagree here with you, Brent. Nothing against you as I respect people and their opinions. That being said, I believe you and I are on totally different sides of this argument, so it would be worthless for me to post any more on this topic.

Oh, and I love you... in a non man-on-man, peanut-butter and feathers type of way.

By the way. Something has come over me. There is a '94 Jeep Wrangler a few blocks down the road (on our dog walking route) for $6500 OBO. I've been thinking of putting a piece of paper on this window saying if he'll except $5k to email me and let me know. Am I crazy? Jeeps are so easy to work on, and parts are so readily available... I'd probably need the availability for buying a Jeep and all. I dunno... I have to admit that I like them for what they are.

[Maverick]

i shouldve waited till sunday to check this thread...wow..

[J La]

Originally posted by tiggergreen
The founding fathers believed in God and put it on all the currency ("In God We Trust")

Originally posted by tiggergreen
...Please do some research...

Some research you may have neglected to do:

http://home.flash.net/~lbartley/au/issues/godtrust.htm

[Seidmanrob]

All this time I thought that this was a list about the Vehicross. I got many great tips and information about this special vehicle. This list has reached an all time low. Keep the politics out of the list and let's get on with enjoying our little trucks. Oh, I understand France has room for those of you who can't stand it here. Maybe there will now be more room for us Vx'ers to drive.

rant mode off!

[Heraclid]

First I will digress - this is already old on this thread, but for some reason stuck with me out of the blue. The statement that the Taliban are still doing alright in Afghanistan and are producing 80% of the world's opium is false. Afghanistan produced a great percentage of the world's opium before the Taliban came to power, and the Taliban actually put it to a rather abrupt stop. So if Afghanistan is supplying a lot of opium again, it is actually proof positive that the Taliban is a thing of the past.

I am not homosexual so I do not know if homosexuality is a choice, but I tend to think that it is not simply by trying to relate it to myself in some way. How I do that is to ask myself if I ever made a choice to be a heterosexual. Well, no I didn't. It was automatic and natural for me and there was never any question that I was interested in women and not men. I would tend to think it must be the same for homosexuals. While things seem to be changing some, it is still not easy to be a homosexual, and it seems to me that not a whole lot of people would make a decision to be homosexual and face those hardships unless it was a natural part of their being and something they had little control over. If it were a choice, it would be much easier to choose differently.

Given what I've said, I am not totally sure how to reconcile homosexuality with the religious teachings I have been getting through the course of my life. It seems to me that what I think of homosexuality is really irrelevant. I think all I really need to know is that my religion teaches compassion and forgiveness, not hate and intolerance. So regardless of my feelings toward the practice of homosexuality or whether or not my faith says it is wrong, I do know without a shadow of a doubt that at least my own religious faith still does teach that one should try to look beyond it.

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Rob,

check which forum this is . Non-vx related chit-chat. Just some lively discussion, no death threats ..............yet :laughg: :homer:

[tiggergreen]

Adam, I love you too - thanks for that great post... I think you should get the jeep...

J La - interesting read - I learned quite a bit from reading this that I had not known before. However, in the declaration of Independence:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to separation."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." July 4, 1776 (emphasis added)

And let us pull from the writings of the founding fathers...

George Washington: "The power and goodness of the Almighty were strongly manifested in the events of our late glorious revolution; and his kind interposition in our behalf has been no less visible in the establishment of our present equal government. In war he directed the sword; and in peace he has ruled in our councils. My agency in both has been guided by the best intentions, and a sense of the duty which I owe my country. " (Letter from George Washington)

Here is an interesting read about the role of God in the founding of this great nation:

God and Washington

Here is a link to the constitution (a must read for anyone):

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

I could go on - but I suggest you do a search on the Internet for both sides of the issues and I think you will find that the answer is that the founding fathers wanted a separation of any single church and the state - basically they didn't want a repeat of the Church of England fiasco... However, they knew our nation would fall apart without religion. There are some incredible stories about the founding of the United States of America.

I took a class in college and that is why I know so much about this subject - however, sometimes my mind loses track of facts, and that is why I love the Internet - it is all at your disposal - for and against - all written very well for anyone to make an educated conclusion of the matter.

Brent
;Dp;

[webdog]

Can an atheist get insurance
against acts of God?

[WyrreJ]

"Laws of Nature" and "Nature's God" are terms that are primarily associated with deism.

Washington was well known as a deist, as were most of the founding fathers. You will find that there are no records of George Washington ever referring to Jesus - not a single mention of Christ in all of Washington's writings.

That is important in the context of the modern conservative christian idealogy which is firmly based in revelation. Deism completely rejects the idea of revelation.

Beyond the abstract characteristics of generic monotheism, the God of the deists shares very little in common with the God of christianity. For the most part, deists are just one step away from being agnostics.

Given that background, it is interesting that the article you linked to quotes Washington's farewell address in which he said:

"And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure -- reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

Note that part about "influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure" -- basically he just said that enlightened people don't need religion to have morals, but for the average bloke its simpler if somebody else sets out the rules of morality and they just follow along.

I'm pretty sure that the author of the article didn't really pick up on that, despite it being in character for Washington - for example, he attended church about as rarely as he possibly could given his position in society.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by webdog
Can an atheist get insurance
against acts of God?

yes, but they charge you a double deductible...

it would make an interesting argument though.. if the insurance company denied a claim due to an "act of god", and your athiest, couldnt one fight their decision based upon that? i dont think theres a clause in insurance policies requiring you acknowldege the existance of God when you sign up, therefore theyd have to pay out wouldnt they??
oh the fun one could have with that one.. ;eekr;

i respect religious beliefs, but i just dont think one has to subscribe to a popular organized religion in order to be spiritual.... Religion teaches good moral values, but i agree that religion is not a requirement to attain morality...Thats a great Quote by Washington (above) , thanks for posting it!!

[MachineVX]

As for this discussion about God and the founding fathers, many of them were not Christians. They were Deists.

http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html