Kerry has conceded

[Dallas4u]

The Constitution states, "separation between Religion and Government" (stated by James Madison). I believe in that myself.

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by Dallas4u
The Constitution states, "separation between Religion and Government" (stated by James Madison). I believe in that myself.

How interesting. Please tell me which article or amendment of the Constitution that statement came from. I'd like to read that myself!

Thanks

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Hey,

Lighten up on dubya, he's learning from his mistakes. Look at the condition of Texas when he left the Gov's office..........

State practically bankrupt, one of the lowest educational levels in the country.........................

uh, never mind.

[MachineVX]

I thought this was an interesting statement concerning the election --

"I'll tell you, being a 16 year-old gay kid in Michigan just got a hell of a lot worse. When I woke up this morning and saw the anti gay marriage proposal had passed, I was shocked. I realized the situation I'm faced with everyday in school - the American people have just shown my classmates that it's perfectly fine to discriminate. A direct quote from a 'friend' at school today: 'It's so cool that all these states just told all the faggots to eat **** and get the hell out...' Because of the above events, I am at a crossroads ... I'm the youngest card-carrying Republican in the county, and am constantly asked to get others involved for Bush/Cheney. Herein lies a problem, I can't bring myself to do that. Bush totally lost all my support (I know I can't vote - but I make a hell of a campaigner) when he supported the amendment to ban gay marriages, and I felt bad that in straying from Bush, I was abandoning Cheney, who I have an amazing amount of respect for. Many would say go Democrat... but I can't do that (that signals the absence of a spine up here), and in the next year, I'm considering dropping my membership to the party. Especially this year, despite how undercut and violated I feel as a gay person, I couldn't be happier that I am. I've got a stronger will because of it, and will lead my life just as strongly."

[PBR]

Bam, Bam, you are a hypocrite, you own two gas guzzlers.

[MrCrowley]

You know what drives me crazy is living here in Alabama with all the holy roller fruit loops who have this stupid ten commandments crap that they wanted to put in a courthouse. They were told no, the judge did it anyways, he got canned, and they are actually still trying to do it while the munument is crapping around the bible belt on tour on the back of a truck and they are trying to get his job back. Please fruit loops- dont take your kids to see this piece of crap- take them to a museum or play or library or state park or zoo or..........whatever. What do they not understand about separation of church and state. Its black and white to me. I even tried a microscope to look. I dont see any grey.... I also think that any mention of religion and faith amongst candidates should be off limits. I eat fruit loops for breakfast- they stay crunchy in milk!

[SlowPro48]

Is it the Ten Commandments you have a problem with or is it the lack of separation between church and state? Or both?

[jimbo]

Just my two cents, please don't take any of this the wrong way. I am an east coast progressive who is humbled (honestly) by the power of the red states.

It seems to me a battle is going on worldwide between two competing philosophies. At the root is the question as to whether the personal freedoms and secular beliefs that we have gained in the past hundred years are a good thing or the cause of unhappiness and moral decay.

I think the culture of the individual coming first and the absolute separation of religion and government (even given the problems it has created) is the best thing that has ever happened to the world. I don't want to see anything take it away.

I know most of you will probably disagree with me, but very dangerous men (in my opinion) are controlling our country right now. The connection between the philosophy of Leo Strauss and many of the men in the Bush administration is easily verifiable. I find Strauss's philosophy scary and fear a future decade of perpetual war. (Strauss felt this warfare and struggle would be good for the morals of the common man and keep the Philosopher Kings, i.e. neocons, in power)

Research it for yourself if you like.

Coincidentally this philosophy and its disdaine for modern secular freedom and liberalism (i.e. modern America and Europe) is very similar to the philosophy at the root of the Islamic Fundalmentalist movement.

Perhaps it is a common idea whose time has come. (the BBC just produced a documentary about these belief systems called "The Power of Nightmares")

Many in our government including John McCaine disagree with these men (the neocons). It seems quite likely that the president's father disagrees with some of the radicals his son has placed in powerful positions as well, though he will never make any public statements that might interfere with his son's presidency.

Please don't flame me, I'm only trying to shed a little light. ;dp;

If you have any interest in the philosophy that we have just given our leaders (mostly unknowingly) a mandate to pursue in force see these links:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...S_GRAPHIC.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200...e_strauss.html
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=572
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=575
http://home.earthlink.net/~karljahn/Strauss.htm

[johnnyapollo]

Interesting.

-- John

[BaM*BaM]

Well Said, Jimbo.

[Raque Thomas]

Originally posted by jimbo
Just my two cents, please don't take any of this the wrong way. I am an east coast progressive who is humbled (honestly) by the power of the red states.

It seems to me a battle is going on worldwide between two competing philosophies. At the root is the question as to whether the personal freedoms and secular beliefs that we have gained in the past hundred years are a good thing or the cause of unhappiness and moral decay.

I think the culture of the individual coming first and the absolute separation of religion and government (even given the problems it has created) is the best thing that has ever happened to the world. I don't want to see anything take it away.

I know most of you will probably disagree with me, but very dangerous men (in my opinion) are controlling our country right now. The connection between the philosophy of Leo Strauss and many of the men in the Bush administration is easily verifiable. I find Strauss's philosophy scary and fear a future decade of perpetual war. (Strauss felt this warfare and struggle would be good for the morals of the common man and keep the Philosopher Kings, i.e. neocons, in power)

Research it for yourself if you like.

Coincidentally this philosophy and its disdaine for modern secular freedom and liberalism (i.e. modern America and Europe) is very similar to the philosophy at the root of the Islamic Fundalmentalist movement.

Perhaps it is a common idea whose time has come. (the BBC just produced a documentary about these belief systems called "The Power of Nightmares")

Many in our government including John McCaine disagree with these men (the neocons). It seems quite likely that the president's father disagrees with some of the radicals his son has placed in powerful positions as well, though he will never make any public statements that might interfere with his son's presidency.

Please don't flame me, I'm only trying to shed a little light. ;dp;

If you have any interest in the philosophy that we have just given our leaders (mostly unknowingly) a mandate to pursue in force see these links:

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...S_GRAPHIC.html
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200...e_strauss.html
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=572
http://www.acutor.be/silt/index.php?id=575
http://home.earthlink.net/~karljahn/Strauss.htm

All very interesting articles, written by liberal journalists and shaped to prove whatever point they are trying to prove. As far as the "made up or imagined" threat of terrorists mentioned - WTF is that all about?? Did anyone forget about 9-11, did someone forget about the threats continuing to made on the American public by these people, do they not watch their own liberal newscasts showing the suicide bombers??? I don't get it!!

I guess a lot of people think if we leave them (the terrorists) alone, they won't bother us - we weren't bothering anyone on 9-11 that I recall. These people are called terrorists because terror is what they use to further their cause - they will not go away if we quit going after them; in fact, just the opposite will happen. We are the object of their disdain - like it or not. They do not like what we represent, what we have accomplished, or the wealth that we have. The only way to win a battle is to fight. There is a battle right now for our way of life - we must fight to preserve it, or cower in a corner and watch it slip away.

One of the articles mentioned in the above post talked about us going on a empire building crusade in the Middle East - that is not the purpose of our mission there - the only way to stabilize that region of the country is to remove the totalitarian leaders who harbor, train, and fund our enemies, while oppressing and further enflaming their people. That area of the world has been rife with warfare and battles since as far back as history goes. I don't believe in getting involved in a coutry's internal affairs as long as they don't have a direct affect on us. But damn it 9-11 changed that little comfortable feeling that what goes on accross the ocean doesn't have any effect on me. Never in the history has peace been negotiated without first there being a resounding victory. Some people get confused on this issue, and think that we can negotiate a truce - look at history, that has NEVER happenned without there first being either a victory by one side, or a long battle that finally wore down the opponent to the point of surrender. We were attacked unprovoked, we had to go to Afganistan to get them. We had to take out their friend and ally Saddam, I think we'll have to take out Iran as well. The only way we can have peace and stability here is to have peace and stability there - the world is an increasingly small place.

Then there's the misleading, lying Republican politicians - did we forget about - I did not have sexual relations with tht woman - Monica Lewinski?? Of course the religion thing comes up again as well - I gues we forget also about William Jefferson Clinton going to church and mentioning his belief in God on numerous occassions - of course a lot of those times were after he was caught lying, and maybe he was trying to redeem himself??

[BaM*BaM]

Where do these dumb hillbilly, Carl Rowe attack dogs come from, who can do nothing but comment about how much their own butts stink.

Try coming up with something like how your own more evangelical moments from a vision of your god really will save the world!

Or how there really was great intelligence in spending $7.5 dollars above the federal budget, and still have a dead economy... Or that the WMD's really Are there in Iraq , but until we all take vows in christianity, god will not let us see them!


This attack dog mentaltity, that has no meaning. Is this all that these republican fools can create. Republicans, please stop being idiot response attack dog . Try using big words and explain how all of the lost USA allies are going to return to the USA's side, because jesus told them to.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by SlowPro48
How interesting. Please tell me which article or amendment of the Constitution that statement came from. I'd like to read that myself!

Thanks

You're correct... this was actually taken from a letter in the 1800's from Madison. It is primarily what is used to interpret the "wall of separation" between church and state in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Here is more info for anyone interested in reading up on it:

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/tnpidx.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/view1.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/view2.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/basicidx.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/argidx.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg2.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/danbury.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/levi.htm

http://www.fac.org/rel_liberty/establishment/index.aspx

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/madnational.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/detach.htm

[J La]

Originally posted by Raque Thomas
Then there's the misleading, lying Republican politicians - did we forget about -

Is this a Freudian slip??

[Raque Thomas]

Originally posted by BaM*BaM
Where do these dumb hillbilly, Carl Rowe attack dogs come from, who can do nothing but comment about how much their own buttes stink.

Contrary to popular belief, hillbilly's come from Idaho, not Kentucky, and I normally don't talk about it when my butt stinks - I do something about it - we have finally graduated to toilet paper from the Sears catalog, and have actually installed indoor plumbing.

Try coming up with something like how your own more evangelical moments from a vision of your god really will save the world!

If you read one of my earlier posts you would have noticed that I don't consider myself religious, and I don't attend church regularly. I don't expect God to save me - that's something you have to do for yourself. The Government's job isn't to take care of you and make sure that you have everything your heart desires.

Or how there really was great intelligence in spending $7.5 dollars above the federal budget, and still have a dead economy... Or that the WMD's really Are there in Iraq , but until we all take vows in christianity, god will not let us see them!

Can't comment on the deficit other than to say that yes, war is expensive. As to the comment of the "dead economy" I'd have to challenge you on that one, as the econonomy is definately improving - maybe you ahve a Democrat govenor in Idaho? WMD's, I'm really tired of that argument. We had intellegence that indicated the weapons, or the capability to produce them was there, everyone agreed to go in - now that they have not materialized, Democrats want to say they had no part in the decision to go in. I don't care if we never find them, I don't care if they were never there - we still did the right thing by going in and taking out a self confirmed enemy of our county who ruled with tyranny and harboured our enemies. Of course at the end we've got to throw in the God thing again. Where does this come from? All Republicans are not holy rollers, just like all Democrats are not dumbasses.


This attack dog mentaltity, that has no meaning. Is this all that these republican fools can create. Republicans, please stop being idiot response attack dog . Try using big words and explain how all of the lost USA allies are going to return to the USA's side, because jesus told them to.

This is a very ironic statement - look back at the posts i nthis thread - which side has the attack dog mentality, with words that have no meaning? Until this post, I was attempting to present my case in a rational manner, and not attack anyone who does not believe as I do. When you are looking back at those posts, look at the theme of who thinks everyone should believe as they do, or they are dumbasses. I am free to believe as I do, and you are free to believe as you do. I am free to try to convince you to see it my way, and you are free to try to convince me of your viewpoint - that's what this country is all about. The attack mentality and name calling is not a neccessary or welcome part of that process - and I invite you to examine the origins of that mentality (Politics - Democrats). I for one, am finished with this thread, and wish you well.