Kerry has conceded

[t2p]

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........ and I can remember when one of the biggest debates concerned who gets the credit for the design of the VX .........
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[t2p]

SPAZZ ...... Maverick ....... Tomdie .......... and others ......
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Bush did not 'ruin' this country ..... not yet at least. Bush inherited a recession ..... and the country was attacked.
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I'm certainly not happy with the way many things are going - but your credibility is severly diminished when you place the blame for the many woes entirely on the shoulders of Bush ........
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This is one reason I sometimes would have liked to see Al Gore as president .... how he would have handled a recession .... and an attack on our country. Or anyone else for that matter.
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I know nothing about Bush's record as governor of Texas - but why is it that that state still supports him ?
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[Maugan_VX]

On all the forums I visit, I've never come across more irrational, bitter people than you.

Makes me wonder why I even bothered to piss you people off in the first place. Seems to me like you manage that fine and dandy on your own :P

(ok, with a little help from Bush)

Fact of the matter is that all this discussion is moot. The votes have been counted and this is what you've got to work with for the next 4 years.

(oh and 51% constitutes a majority. Not even your boy Clinton got that much)

[kpaske]

I have been following this thread since the beginning and have opted not to comment. With a few exceptions, most of what is being spewed here is unintelligent rubbish.

This forum is an excellent place for us to come together and discuss a vehicle we all own and enjoy, but we should really avoid the political discussions.

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by Maugan_VX
On all the forums I visit, I've never come across more irrational, bitter people than you.

Makes me wonder why I even bothered to piss you people off in the first place. Seems to me like you manage that fine and dandy on your own :P

(ok, with a little help from Bush)

Fact of the matter is that all this discussion is moot. The votes have been counted and this is what you've got to work with for the next 4 years.

(oh and 51% constitutes a majority. Not even your boy Clinton got that much)

First of all, there is no reason to lump all 200 - 300 members of this forum into a mass of 'bitter' people. I know, you are a perfect SOB, so quit f&*king posting here then. I don't mind seeing some nice, thought out posts from you, but most of the f*#king time you are just an a$$hole. I don't know why you think acting this way makes you seem 'cooler' or more 'intelligible' than everyone else here, but may I say that you are sooo wrong.

The discussion isn't moot because I believe everyone here knows (yes, you're under estimated us again) that we can't change what happened by posting our opinions. Some people get more emotional than others, but this time it seems we've kept from calling people names... big improvement.

I don't know if you just don't get out much or what, but 'bitter people' are f*@king everywhere... get use to it. If this is the most bitter you've seen, you need to crawl out from under the rock.

Seriously... you think you rule the board by coming here and saying things to upset people? Is that your way to beat your chest and prove your manhood? Grow up a little. People have opinions. People feel strongly about how their country is run. Many people love this country... so either participate and quit acting like a 9 year old bully or don't.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by t2p
SPAZZ ...... Maverick ....... Tomdie .......... and others ......
.
Bush did not 'ruin' this country ..... not yet at least. Bush inherited a recession ..... and the country was attacked.
.
I'm certainly not happy with the way many things are going - but your credibility is severly diminished when you place the blame for the many woes entirely on the shoulders of Bush ........
.
This is one reason I sometimes would have liked to see Al Gore as president .... how he would have handled a recession .... and an attack on our country. Or anyone else for that matter.
.
I know nothing about Bush's record as governor of Texas - but why is it that that state still supports him ?
.

I dont think anyone claimed Bush did all this single handedly, thats far more credit than he deserves imho...However his actions, lack of action in some cases, and dismissive attitude certainly contributed to our current state of affairs..his record speaks for itself.. In the end, our current president is accountable . what he tells us does not jive with his past record, and i have a problem with that.. I sincerely hope he can fix the problems, but i get the distinct impression he doesnt even acknowledge there are problems..so im not convinced the next four years will be any different than the past four..and that is very troubling to me...

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by Maverick
But i think theres a better explaination than "Poof!! " well figure it out eventually..]

Well I personally believe it was a Big Bang - but I don't have a problem with Poofs... Do you prefer a Big Bang or a Big Poof? You sound kinda like you might prefer Poofs (not that there's anything wrong with that)

..i didnt like the answers i found when my questions turned to Bush.. In every lie, there is some small bit of truth, i added those bits together and man, are we in trouble...but thats just my perception, others feel differently, and i hope theyre right...

Everything will be OK. Just think - in 4 more years you can vote for Hillary. I actually don't think we're in any more trouble than if Kerry had been elected. That man was swimming in an ocean of lies too. I wish he had won so you Dems could find out how deep that ocean was and then maybe we'd get some Libertarian votes in 2008. Apparently being a fibber is a pre-requisite to being a front-runner in the presidential campaign. Name one straight-talking major party candidate who's gotten past the primaries in the last 20 years. The only honest man that has gotten anywhere close to the presidency was Perot and he was an Independant and way too flaky to win. He told it like it was though didn't he? I wish he had won. Damn that would have been an entertaining four years.

Actually I shouldn't be so pessimisstic - now that I think about it, a truly honest man HAS won and served as president during my lifetime and of course I'm talking about Jimmy Carter.

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by jimbo
It's a why to me.

Why does a rock drop when I let go of it? Gravity is enough of a reason.

Why life? DNA has a strong tendency to replicate.

OK - so you took a couple HOW questions and stuck a "Why" in front of them. That still doesn't make them WHY questions but if you want to think it does then go right ahead. I like your answers though. Definitely more succinct than anything I could come up with. Man, I envy people who can look at the back of a DVD and admire the pretty colors instead of thinking about diffraction gratings...


BTW, Mr Smartypants - do you think the big turtle at the South Pole will ever get tired? You know the one I'm talking about right? He carries the Earth around on his back and that's how we orbit the Sun.

[jimbo]

Bring back Jimmy!!!!!! Pleeeze!

Anyways it's not about the lies, it's not about the policies, it's not even about the war. It's about basic beliefs and everytime Bush talks to the press(and snickers sarcastically) I get a little more scared.

He's NOTHING AT ALL like me and that scares the sh#t out of me.

Can anyone say Ozzie and Harriet time all over again? Welcome back to Pleasantville. Liberals, commies, long-haired freaks and homos not welcome.

[jimbo]

Hi slowpro -

OK - so you took a couple HOW questions and stuck a "Why" in front of them. That still doesn't make them WHY questions but if you want to think it does then go right ahead. I like your answers though. Definitely more succinct than anything I could come up with.

They are whys. A how would be more in depth , such as How does gravity work on the rock. That would take a much longer answer. Why is easier.

The rock drops because gravity acts on it. There doesn't need to be any deeper answer than that. Human concerns and philosophies have zero to do with it. Ditto for the reason life exists.

If you need more reason (and by the way I do to) for your own personal sanity then that's great. That's what religion, phlosophy, the arts, sex, love and ice cream are for.

Let's not argue too much, I think we basically agree. After all we both have VXs.

P.S. Isn't it weird where this thread has gone? I bet Anita thinks we are loons.

I'll say this about all you Bush lovers ...Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

No but in some circles it probably means you are having a good time on a Friday night.

[t2p]

Jimmy Carter was a respectable man .......
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a man of honor .......... a great person .....
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but NOT a great president unfortunately.
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In a way ........ he inherited a mess ....... but he was unable and/or willing to make the changes to lead this nation out of the cellar .........
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[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by Dallas4u
I, too, feel the same way. My post was to show just how ignorant people can be. Single track minds, not open to any other way of thinking... again, it's incredible that people still think this way.

Yeah - I find closed-minded people very frustrating too... guess we all do. I work with a bunch of them - and the funny thing is they always refer to themselves as "open-minded" or, more recently, "progressive" which I think must be a new code word for something. One of them has a bumper sticker that says "If only closed minds came with closed mouths" How much more closed-minded can you get? Somehow she thinks not listening to people she might not agree with makes her open-minded. Hello, McFly! - could you be any more closed-minded and hypocritical?

Originally posted by Dallas4u
I have a hard time figuring out how someone believe so overwhemingly in the Bible and it's teachings yet believe in evolution, or that living beings were created through an evolutionary process. As Brent stated below, Adam and Eve with belly buttons? I know... that's a far one.

I'm definitely no Bible expert but that seems like an easy one to explain. The Bible vs evolution/science issue, I mean - not the belly button thing. I have no explanation for that! Guess it's a reference to A & E not coming from a womb or something.

The way I see it, the Bible is not a scientific book but rather a theological one. It offers personal explanations for our concerns rather than scientific ones. Scientific explanations do not prove or disprove personal ones. Even Stephen Hawking - one of the smartest humans alive right now - has admitted that "science may solve the problem of how the universe began, but it cannot answer the question: why does the universe bother to exist?"

Originally posted by Dallas4u
I admit I am agnostic. I'm open to hear anything, but lean one way. I believe there was a Jesus Christ, and I believe he has had followers up till this day. I'm not trying to say I know enough about ANYTHING to factualize any theories out there... I tend to believe scientific fact. You're right, Science cannot prove "Why", but nothing can from what I can see. In my eyes, Science is trying with it's How and When everyday.

Well you and I are almost in the same boat then. I'm definitely not an atheist - the universe couldn't exist without being created by something outside the system - but until recently have never really thought of the creator as a Being (i.e., God) - in my mind it was just some nebulous (but really smart!) Force that Poofed everything into existance and then sat back to watch the show. For years I relied on nothing but empirical facts. If I couldn't see it, feel it, hear it, smell it or taste it - well then it didn't exist. If it was something far away or really small I might have to use some assistance - a light microscope or an electron microscope or maybe I'd monkey around with the electrons' spin-spin coupling using an NMR. One way or another, the phenomena had to be observed or measured to be real. Then BOOM! One night something happened that was beyond the realm of possibility. I now know there is more to this world than meets the eye because I've seen the unseen world intrude upon these four dimensions we call home. There was another witness too so don't go thinking it was a halucination. I had to adjust my view of the universe and turned to quantum reality for answers because I knew there was wiggle room there. In Bell's Theorem I found a basis for my own personal myth as to HOW weird things can happen without breaking the known physical laws of the universe - but not WHY.

One thing you need to keep in mind in your search for the truth (and I just assume everyone is searching for the truth but if you're just lounging in the Lazy-Boy of life, eating potato chips and watching Gilligan's Island that's OK too) is that the role of science is to DISCOVER said truth. Science does not DEFINE the truth. The truth is what it is whether we like it or not. Due to advances in knowledge and technology, the scientific facts and the theories used to explain them change over time, but the underlying, unchanging Truth is and has been there all along just waiting for scientists to discover it. Our experiments get better and reveal a clearer picture of the truth, though bringing new facts to light all the time. For example, during the 19th century, respectable scientists believed the universe was made of a substance they called aether, and believed that matter was composed of vortices in this aether - like little tiny smoke rings. It was in all the textbooks. Taught in school. There were even patents granted for machines that would have extracted energy from the earth's passage through the aether. Does anybody believe in the aether now?

At the end of the 19th century physicists pretty much had it all figured out. They were confident they had a comprehensive picture of the way the world worked. They just had one teeny tiny little detail left to work out. One little loose end that wasn't really hurting any thing... but it bugged them just the same... They had finally figured out an experiment to test the speed of light - and it seemed to be absolute. Then in 1905 Einstein not only blew those old aether smoke rings away but he shook the very foundations of physics with his theory of special relativity, which changed everything just to take care of that little speed of light problem. And a whole new round of experiments were started and more facts were added to the cookbook of knowledge. The the process started all over when relativity experiments failed at the sub-atomic level and quantum mechanics came along. New experiments, new facts, and another shiny new theory. Wonder what the next one will be? A universe made of string cheese anyone...? Point is - science is shifting sand. Truth is not.

You mentioned Jesus.... I don't remember talking about him in any previous messages - I'm pretty sure I didn't anyway because that kind of talk makes me uncomfortable - but what the hell let's get a little more mileage out of this thread. So you think he actually existed, eh? If so do you think he was crazy or a liar - or downright evil? If he did actually exist it was over 2000 years ago. Have you ever wondered why the whole world is still talking about him? And why talking about him elicits such strong reactions from people? I've wondered and I'm going to find out. He is the subject of my next truth seeking project. I've hit the wall with quantum electrodynamics. Time for something where I don't have to draw a hundred little squiggly lines and arrows on graph paper. All I have to do is read. Hell, maybe they even have it on DVD now and I can enjoy some popcorn and learn all about Jesus at the same time.

I read a quote by C.S. Lewis that goes like this:

"Christianity is a statement which, if false, is of no importance, and, if true, of infinite importance. The one thing it cannot be is moderately important."

Considering JC's outrageous claims, the logic of that statement is flawless.

Originally posted by Dallas4u
I respect religion. If that's what some people need then I'm all for it. I don't want religion to rule my life, though.

At least you're open-minded about it. Tell me, what's ruling your life right now? Is it doing a good job? Maybe it's something I can afford. Roadracing is too expensive...

[t2p]

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yeah ......... vote for Hillary Clinton .........
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the possibility of that is *truely* frightening ......
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they (dems) better find a better candidate .........
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[Dallas4u]

Wow... good reading here. I should seriously set aside more time to read and reflect on these things.

I guess I should say, I believe more in the possibility in that there was a person named Jesus Christ as it is possible there was a person who lived at the time he is said to have, that was named Jesus Christ, that was a carpenter. What happened after this, I don't know. I tend to believe that many stories were made because many people think they need to believe that there is something more out there than what they see and know. These stories evolved and were followed as a reason for being.

As for something else being out there... as in other life forms in what we call the universe... I think it is pretty selfish to think we would be the only living beings in this mass of solar systems.

[jimbo]

BTW, Mr Smartypants - do you think the big turtle at the South Pole will ever get tired? You know the one I'm talking about right? He carries the Earth around on his back and that's how we orbit the Sun.

Silly rabbit, everyone knows the earth is carried on the back of a fat moustached guy with a New York accent named Sol.

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You guys better watch talking about Jesus, Mel Gibson might be watching.

You don't want to mess with Mel do ya? Remember lethal weapon?