Kerry has conceded

[jimbo]

Animals have no morals and do not belong in a comparison to human behavior

Please tell me how morality can exist without religion? If you do not believe in a higher power, why be moral?

This sort of thinking goes to the heart of this thread and why the current american administration is narrow-minded and dangerous.

Humans are not "better", just different. America is not better either. We see being these things as being better because it is hard to get outside of our own belief systems and value judgements. Even if you feel you can argue that the above suppositions are absolutely true (I realize that humans and americans are different in significant ways) it is no way to think. We do not have to attach value judgements to our own differentness.

This is the beginning of intolerance.

When you start believing that humans are so special, americans are so great, my religion is the one "true" religion, then you set up a dangerous situation that often leads to violence and oppresion of other nations, religions, and the earth's ecosystem itself.

You become so sure you are right that you justify your aggresive actions by your own narrow-minded belief system.

Is this how we justify the torture going on at Guantanomo? Is this a good way for the leader of the free world to behave?

Back to the topic at hand, animals and morals :

Many animals exhibit altruistic behavior. One example is whale pods who will often surround a sick member who is in shallow water (beached) and in danger of drowning by flipping over and submerging the blowhole.

Whales will often stay with the sick individual until that individual recovers or dies, even if they end up getting stranded and dying themselves. I don't think this behavior can be justified by saying that the animals are simply reacting out of instinctual needs to protect the gene pool (like a mother bear protecting her own cubs). Something deeper is going on here.

Altruism -The quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others. Often used as a synonym for morals.

So whales might have morals. In fact the whole animal kingdom is full of examples that we might call "moral" behavior.

Do animals have religion? I think not. But they might have morals.

The same instinctual moral behaviors apply to humans. After the toddler stage human animals exhibit moral behavior on their own, regardless of their culture and upbringing (religion or not). As a matter of fact humans (barring psychological problems like sociopaths) have to learn immoral behavior, in other words rationalize harming others. People who do wrong often know it is wrong instinctually, but rationalize it to themselves. Example: It is ok to steal from my boss because he didn't give me the raise I deserved. Studies seem to show that moral behavior is instinctual in humans and can be totally unreliant on religious beliefs.

Actually, some sociologists who study religion believe the opposite is true.

Religious beliefs seem true to people because they reenforce instinctual moral systems that exist within the brain already. This is why some belief systems just "seem" right. The more the religion conforms to these instinctual systems, the more it will seem true, and the more popular and widespread the memes of that religious system are likely to be.