Kerry has conceded

[Dallas4u]

Originally posted by t2p

because I REALLY get hot when I see the visions of the people in that country jumping up and down with joy when the Twin Towers were bombed.
.

Are you talking about Iraq or Afghanistan... or even Pakistan?

[StormTROOPER]

Paranoia comes from the yin (child) side of our brain.

[jimbo]

Paranoia comes from the yin (child) side of our brain.

I don't believe you StormTROOPER .... I'm sure you're out to get me !!!!!! ;eekr;

[StormTROOPER]

TOOSHAY ! LMAO Happiness also comes from the yin, so........dont worry,.....be happy

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by jimbo
Sorry Slowpro-

I didn't know it was a fabrication. I was worried that it might be (I'll remove it), but the accuracy of the words is not as important as the fact that I've seen these guys (can't remember if it was Jerry or the 700 club) on TV call for people to pray against their political enemies (a few years back), and I remember the big to-do about the praying for death of the supreme court justices. It was in the news for several weeks.

You remember it too I'm sure. The point is I don't think Michael Moore is nearly as hateful, distortful or radical as many of the leaders of the christian right.

I think the second silly quote is accurate.

Anyways quit calling me on things damit!

I'm trying to argue a position here, you keep taking the ez middle ground. LOL

You're no fun.;Dp;

Take care

OK let me get this straight - you were worried it might be false but you posted that sucker anyway, eh? Yeah - I'd say you're arguing a position alright - and not letting the facts get in the way!


I see you deleted the quote but left the other one about that rapture stuff that some people believe in. What was the purpose of that? Are you trying to show everybody how ignorant christians must be to believe something so outlandish? Don't be so mean bro! Their hope isn't hurting you one bit. And who knows - they might be right! Do you know FOR SURE it isn't going to happen? I personally don't think people will be riding along in cars and just disappear - but I know there's more to this world than meets the eye, and won't rule out the possibility of it happening. I also personally know christians - some of whom believe there will be a rapture - and they are not one bit wacky. They are quite intelligent as well as being very, very nice people. They would never, ever pray for someone to die.

Live and let live, man!

As far as the middle ground being "ez" - have you ever tried to ride a unicycle?

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by vxkween
Wow...I have been reading this thread along with many of you, I'll have to say that I have been pleasantly surprised at the "progressive" beliefs that a majority of you hold. I hate labels, they are restrictive and in discussions like this many will jump to conclusions just because one is a "liberal","conservative", "Democrat" or "Republican". I think that we can all have far-ranging beliefs on any number of subjects and don't have to be pinned in to some all encompassing set of rules that have been set by the label makers.

I will admit that we (my partner and I) have considered attending some of the events but weren't quite sure if we would be welcomed with open arms as we have an "alternative lifestyle" (whatever that means!). We have both been lucky enough to have families that support us 100% and work enviroments that were inclusive and diverse, but wasn't sure if a car club of any kind would be so open....a clear breakage of my don't pre judge rule!!

So again I'm warmed by the general fair and open-minded opinions I've read in this thread.......any group should have a token lesbian couple anyway!!

Is this vehicross.info's first 'outing'?! Damn I've seen it all now! Is this an awsome thread or what? Is there anything we haven't covered?

VXkween, I'm sure you and your partner would be welcomed at any gathering. And I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on labels. My very best friend in this whole wide world is queer as a three dollar bill - but he's also a conservative, straight-ticket republican. And I don't mean your typical conservative - we're talking about an I-just-sent-a-check-to-Jesse Helms type conservative. Stick a label on that!

[jimbo]

Slowpro - I removed the post you found offensive.

Sorry

I think you know the point I was trying to make (about the president and his powerful friends), it wasn't about the christians you know, or the christians I know (my family).

I think you know I wasn't trying to be mean.

Please lighten up.

[SlowPro48]

Originally posted by jimbo
Slowpro - I removed the post you found offensive.

Sorry

I think you know the point I was trying to make (about the president and his powerful friends), it wasn't about the christians you know, or the christians I know (my family).

I think you know I wasn't trying to be mean.

Please lighten up.

Hey it wasn't offensive (it didn't offend me anyway), I just think it's kind of mean to poke fun at somebody's religious beliefs. I don't think you should have deleted it - the management is the only censor here and thankfully they're pretty tolerant of all this free speech. I say put that sucker back if it's the way you feel! Let this thread stand as it is! Hell, if we deleted every post that offended somebody there wouldn't be anything left of it!!!

As far as "the point" you've been trying to make - you started out bashing Bush and his administration (and I don't blame you for that!) but the more you talk, the more I'm of the opinion that your angst is actually caused by conservative Christians and their beliefs and Bush just happens to be their figurehead and thus the focal point of your anger. (And I don't mean to pick on you - I don't think you're the only one doing this by any means - it's just that you seem like you're thick-skinned and vocal so I can shoot straight with you).

I find this curious for two reasons.... but it's 10pm and I gotta hit the road to A-ville. Time to lighten up! No PC, no TV, no phone and if I don't do some midnight plumbing tonight, no water in the morning either! So this conversation will have to continue Monday - or not! We'll see if this magnificent beast lives a couple more days...

Have a good weekend!

[SGT.BATGUANO]

Originally posted by t2p
Again, this country did basically 'nothing for 20 years'.
.

We did nothing to Iraq because Saddam (who was not a threat) was our supported puppet of choice. We even went so far as to supply him with chemical and other wmd's ( that's why dumbya was sooo damn sure we would find wmd's there) .

Osama was our ally too. He was pissed because we supplied him with weapons and "guerilla/ terrorist" training to fight our war with the soviets, but no manpower or more importantly, no funding to help rebuild poverty riddled Afghanistan after they turned the soviets back and the dust settled. A good number of his people died to advance our cause, and for what?

I think this may have been the beginnings of overseas outsourcing of U.S. jobs (jk).

As a sidenote we helped install the Shah of Iran as our puppet there and now, years later, that too is coming back to bite us in the nether regions.

There were *many* reasons to invade Iraq. They did not find WMD's. So I guess many would feel better if we had found WMD's .... ???

Actually, there was only 1 reason "national (ahem) security", but when that didn't pan out our leaders "hatched" a few more.

I wouldn't have felt better, but at least our "attack/ invasion" would have been legitimately justified in the eyes of Americans and our allies throughout the world.
.
Maybe it was primarily 'personal' - and maybe siblings ....... relatives ........ should not be allowed to sit in the Oval Office ?

I won't go that far. Especially with Hillarity (sic) being eyed as a contender ( yeah, right) Lmao. Just a little disappointed that the congress and citizens here were tricked into backing an agenda of revenge and uninvited overtaking of another country, with a side order of economic windfalls for corporate cronies.

We're going to be stuck there for years and billions, if not trillions of dollars, which could both serve a better purpose here at HOME.

As far as the Iraqi cheering goes, you'd cheer too if the option was cheer or get a bullet in the head, but before you say that is a good reason for us to be there, let me just say that there are other , more hostile, threatening and repressive countries out there that are begging for our help.

Did someone say "wag the dog"?

[jimbo]

(Slowpro) As far as "the point" you've been trying to make - you started out bashing Bush and his administration (and I don't blame you for that!) but the more you talk, the more I'm of the opinion that your angst is actually caused by conservative Christians and their beliefs and Bush just happens to be their figurehead and thus the focal point of your anger.

You have a tendency to try to psychoanalyze everything. I've been around long enough to know there's no point in going down that road.

I've never picked apart your posts and metaphors (the train et al) and tried to somehow discount your arguments (and in the process miss the point entirely)based on your personal beliefs, mistakes in logic or flaws in who you quote or how you say something.

It's as if you believe if you dig deep enough you can figure out why somebody holds the beliefs they do and then you can go "Aha!" and put them in a box with a label like "liberal with a grudge against christians". Then if you could only bring said "liberal with a grudge" around to understanding this "angst" that they have you could help them recover from their ungrounded delusions and the argument would be settled.

Come on man, you can do this kind of analysis with anybody if you get to know them well enough. Half the time you would be totally wrong (it's probably not that simple) and the other half it wouldn't matter at all as far as the main points of the argument are concerned.


It gets in the way of the logic.

It just makes the discussion personal.

I was just trying to say something pretty simple and straight forward:

A prevoius poster said the reason Kerry lost was because of Michael Moore. (that he attended the convention)

I was trying to say that if Kerry was aligned with Michael Moore, Bush is like-wise aligned with Jerry Falwell and his kin. These folks seem equally as extreme, prone to stretch their case and hostile in their approaches and messages.

I just don't think it was real likely that large numbers of swing-voters voted against Kerry because Michael Moore was at the convention. Nor do I think large numbers of folks voted against Bush because he is aligned politically with Jerry Falwell.

I hope that's clearer.

Take care, it's the weekend yippee!

[BaM*BaM]

[SlowPro48]

Jimbo - I'm embarrassed to even mention this but as it turns out, my analysis of your psyche may have been based on invalid data. I've been very busy the last couple weeks and my mental sieving/sorting/pigeonholing process has been malfunctioning and I may have accidentally attributed some of BaMBaM's messages to you...


Sorry about that!

[jimbo]

Thanks for being so cool about it slowpro.

It seems our little thread is dead however.

Well, it definitely had a run, didn't it?

I think it helped me get over my post-election blues.

[SlowPro48]

Well, Jimbo, I gave that one a few hours but it looks like the fish aren't biting today so here's my real response...

Originally posted by jimbo
You have a tendency to try to psychoanalyze everything. I've been around long enough to know there's no point in going down that road.

I've never picked apart your posts and metaphors (the train et al) and tried to somehow discount your arguments (and in the process miss the point entirely)based on your personal beliefs, mistakes in logic or flaws in who you quote or how you say something.

I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you and I'm not trying to push my views on you any more than you're pushing your views on me. I DO have a tendency to pull for the underdog though - and if I see someone bashing someone else's beliefs in an unwarranted fashion then I'll say something about it - even if they're not my beliefs.

If you post inaccurate info and attempt to pass off false quotes in order to make someone else's beliefs (religious or otherwise) look silly - I'm going to call you on it - and I'd expect you to do the same for me. It's called peer review. BTW, if you've got a problem with my space-time as train metaphor, then derail that sucker - please! It was generated rather hastily for this thread and sounded good at the time but if there are flaws I won't ever use it again.

Originally posted by jimbo
It's as if you believe if you dig deep enough you can figure out why somebody holds the beliefs they do and then you can go "Aha!" and put them in a box with a label like "liberal with a grudge against christians". Then if you could only bring said "liberal with a grudge" around to understanding this "angst" that they have you could help them recover from their ungrounded delusions and the argument would be settled.

So... uhhh.... who's the psychoanalyst....? Look - I am a very curious person who likes to ask questions (that apparently nobody wants to answer) but I don't ask for the purpose of labeling or judging anyone. I'm genuinely interested in what other people think - it's part of the Search For Truth. I feel no need whatsoever to pigeonhole people though. (Other than putting them into the two very broad categories of "Those Who Want To Kill My Joy" and "Those Who Leave Me Alone And Let Me Do My Thing") Are you sure you aren't projecting..? (jk)

Jimbo, I guess I owe you an apology. I shouldn't have offered up my opinion regarding the root cause of your angst. You haven't spent nearly enough time on my couch for me to have said something like that. I am sorry.

Also...I must confess that it was actually just a cheap stunt to increase the page count of this thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

Originally posted by jimbo
I just don't think it was real likely that large numbers of swing-voters voted against Kerry because Michael Moore was at the convention. Nor do I think large numbers of folks voted against Bush because he is aligned politically with Jerry Falwell.

Agreed. What I want to know is why didn't more people vote Badnarik? And again - I'm not trying to psychoanalyze - I really want to know!!!

[V-Twin hiCROSS]

Wow, this thread has reached many aspects of the political divide in this country. I have not written anything in this post for a while, so I thought that I would give some comment on a bumper sticker that I saw this weekend.
It was one of the bumper stickers with the little guy peeing on "W. Bush". I was outraged!!! I understand, and have no problem with folks not agreeing with the politics and all. But to say "Piss on our President", thems fightin' words. It's not just that it's George W., it is the office and the position that gets me fired up.
Whether you support and agree with him or not, we are all stuck with him for the next four years. Do Not, I repeat, do not hold these grudges for the remainder if his term. It will end up just eating you up inside. The man has a job to do, and he wants to do what will benefit our country. Why would you want to act like a sore loser for the next four years, there is just nothing to gain from it.
If the results of the next four years are not positive, we can all vote for a Democrat next time around. But, I would really like to see this country pull together and get this country back on track. I was talking to some liberal friends over the weekend. I think that there were six of us sitting around (several union guys). They were complaining that the economy and jobs were their main objection to Bush. So, my question was, "how many people do you know who are out of work right now, of those who want to work?". Not a single person knew anyone who is out of work at this moment. My next question was, "which of you is making less money today, than you were 4 or 5 years ago?". The answer was only 1 guy, and that is because he lost his local truck driving job due to DWI's. Anyhow, I think that I got these guys to understand that life isn't so bad right now.