New Tires and lift?

[Pigpen]

I am wanting to change to 33" BF Goodrich AT Radials, I am assuming this will call for a lift and a trim. However, even after searching and reading thru the forums I am unsure as to the type and manufacture of the lift I should purchase. Past getting the tires, I am stuck. Could someone throw me a bone and help me out with suggestions and prices. In addition, I have recently moved to AZ and need a good shop to do the work.

Thanks

[Green Dragon]

No lift kit necessary- Crank the front torsion bars all the way & install OME 912 (springs in the rear). Actually selecting a set of wheels to fit the BFG TKO 33 inch tires may be the most difficulty you will encounter unless you go to 15 inch wheels.

[BBVX]

Yeah, what Bob said.
That's what I did, the difference is that I went with the 33" BFG MTs. I actually have backed the torsion bars off about 4 turns, I think I'm still at 8 full turns on the bolts. I had to trim some cladding underneath the front edge of the front tire, and beat some of the sheet metal back at the rear of the front wheel well. Neither of these is noticable unless you really look for it. The springs go in pretty easy, a few hours for a non-mechanic.



Brian

[Pigpen]

Thanks guys now all I have to do is buy the tires and springs, for the springs do you guys suggest an internet site or dealer type purchase?

[Green Dragon]

Thanks guys now all I have to do is buy the tires and springs, for the springs do you guys suggest an internet site or dealer type purchase?

This is where I bought mine. Note free S&H

You want 912 medium duty, VX same as Trooper

http://www.rocky-road.com/trooper.html

[Green Dragon]

Yeah, what Bob said.
That's what I did, the difference is that I went with the 33" BFG MTs. I actually have backed the torsion bars off about 4 turns, I think I'm still at 8 full turns on the bolts. I had to trim some cladding underneath the front edge of the front tire, and beat some of the sheet metal back at the rear of the front wheel well. Neither of these is noticable unless you really look for it. The springs go in pretty easy, a few hours for a non-mechanic.



Brian

Great action shot. probably one of the best photos ever.
What wheels do you have?

How do you keep your VX so clean on the trail?

Bob

[yal^]

Bob, it looks to me like this is just the begining of the trail LOL
There is a solid pavement right behind him. BBVX prolly just got off (the) road to show off...

Btw, independent4x.com has those coil springs. I got a set of them with 1'' spacers for my VX and I am very pleased with set up.
And to answer your next q'n Pigpen, no you do not need new set of shocks. Ours handle taller springs and cranked bars very well.

[Pigpen]

ok,now I have questions on the wheels, how much trouble to keep stock and what are the different makes of the 15" ers?

Thanks for all the help.

[projectVX99]

I'm sorry guys......but where are the front torsion bars? I love the idea of doing this without a kit. Please help!

[SPAZZ]

I am running 33x12.5x17 inch GoodYear Wrangler MTR's on 17inch KMC Venom rims I think they are 8.5 inches wide.

[Swordy]

I would advise you not to use BFG KO's or KM's if you do alot of serious offroading. They have weak sidewalls. Most of my friends that use them have wound up with holes in at least 1 sidewall from sticks or rocks. The new Krawler TA's do have strong sidewalls, but to most people they are cost prohibitive.
Just another 0.02

[Green Dragon]

Scott Brady said...

"Well, we are having an interesting discussion on tires* , aren’t forums great!
So here is one man’s opinion on tires, with a little bit of science thrown in for fun:

Stability:

For a vehicle to handle similar to stock you would need to increase the tire width for every inch of lift and for every inch of tire height from the hub centerline to the ground (or half of the total tire height).* Of course even with the correct amount of width added, your truck will respond slower, and have greater roll-in due to the*deflection of the taller sidewall (that is why sport cars run large wheels and low aspect ratios).*

Uwe’s truck started with a 28.3" tall / 8.8" wide tire. So if the truck is lifted +3 inches and a 33" tall tire (+2.35") is added, the replacement tire would have to be 14.15" wide!* Ouch.* I have found that suspension design and bushing/roll bar strength are better compliments to a reasonably wide tire.*.* Flotation tires were developed for the US market about 20 years ago to address our larger vehicles (more flotation required) and higher road speeds (better handling).* Common metric (European) sizes are always narrower than the equivalent flotation (inch) tire.* For example, a common flotation 33" (32.6" typical)*tire*has a*12.5 section width; whereas the 285/75 R16 (32.8") is only 11" wide at the section width.*A 33 or 35x12.5 is a good choice for a full size (heavy) vehicle. Anything wider than a 12" tire on a light vehicle is actually a detriment to traction on hard surfaces (see below)

Traction:

Tread design- The tread you select needs to be appropriate to the terrain you are driving on. A mud tire will perform poorly on the sand compared to an all terrain, etc.
Contact Pressure- This is an often overlooked factor when selecting a tires width.* The weight (Lbs. per square inch) of the vehicle is spread out across the contact patch of the tire.* If you have a wide tire on a light vehicle you will have poorer traction on rock, but great traction on sand.* Of course there is a limit to this (point of diminishing return), and is very situation specific. If you look at the tires used in competitive rock crawlers they are rarely over 13.5" wide, even on 40" diameter tires. Tires in the 10 to 12" range on a light vehicle are perfect for most terrain. A narrower (within reason) tire will always provide better traction than a wider tire unless flotation is required due to the contact pressure.*

Durometer Rating- The durometer rating of the rubber compound also contributes to improved traction.* A softer tire (lower durometer) like a Goodyear MTR or BFG Moab edition will perform better than other tires, as the tread "lugs" can deform under pressure to conform to the terrain, similar to lowering the air pressure.* The down size is greater propensity to cuts and torn lugs, and a higher wear rate. It does seem that Goodtimes has had good luck with wear on the MTR's, but I think the lighter Jeep help a lot. The tires on my Jeep's always seem to wear well. Here are some internet comments on the MTR.* Most love the tire, but many note high wear http://www.epinions.com/Goodyear_Wra...splay_~reviews

Siping-Tire siping and grooving also improves tires traction on most surfaces.* The benefits are most apparent on ice and wet surfaces.

Given the same height, tread design and sidewall thickness; here is a review of the benefits of different widths:

Wider Tire (12-14"):

Benefits:
Greater flotation on soft surfaces (less contact pressure per square inch)
They do look cool
Increased stability

Disadvantages:
Greater rotating mass- It takes more power to turn, and a greater likelihood of broken parts
Fuel Economy- Greater resistance to the road and air
Less traction on hard surfaces (less contact pressure)
Less traction in snow, ice and mud where flotation is not required

Narrower Tire (10-12"):

Benefits (other than the disadvantages of the wider tire):
Less unsprung weight
Easier to fit on factory wheels, and less lift is required (usually)
You can fit in tighter areas (every little bit helps)
Less engine power is required to gain wheel speed, or push through shallow mud and snow

Disadvantages:
Less Flotation on soft surface (this can be a major factor in sand)
Less stability
Potential for increased damage to terrain on muddy tracks

Practical Application: If you look at any major expedition effort, the tires of choice are almost always narrower. For example, the Turtle Expedition who has literally traveled around the world used a 255/85 R16 (33.1 x 10) for many thousands of miles on their full size Ford. Land Rover uses narrow 7.0 R16 XCL*tires in all of their Camel Trophy events. Rain Forest Challenge and The Trophy challenge have all been won by the aggressive Simex Trekker tire (35x11.00).*Even Tom Sheppard the "god" of expedition travel uses the 7-7.5 R16 Michelin XZL and XCL*for most of his expeditions. Most of this information can be found in the Land Rover Driving Instructor Curriculum.

The choice of tires and width has always been a point of serious discussion (camp fire talk), and the opinions are as varied as the types of tires available.* Everyone needs to pick what works for them, and the terrain they most frequently drive.* I certainly respect the ideas of others on this subject, especially those of Goodtimes and Baja, as*their comments come from direct experience***.* After many vehicles (16+) and tires (30+ sets) *I have settled on a 10-11" width and 32-33" height as what works best for me, and the type of terrain I drive.

Goodtimes: The Yokohama Geolander A/T you are refering to is likely the older tread design.* The new A/T+II has only been on the market for about a year.* They make less noise than the BFG A/T's that I replaced (I have a Db meter).*I have not experienced the sidewall damage you refer to on the BFG tires (I have had about 10 sets), the MTR and BFG both have 3-ply sidewalls.* I may seem that they*fail at a higher rate because BFG is a more common tire on the trail*

Sorry for the long post, but I do love this stuff! "

[BBVX]

I would advise you not to use BFG KO's or KM's if you do alot of serious offroading. They have weak sidewalls.

A lot of the guys in my club ( www.jonfund.com ), myself included, run BFG MTs and I can't think of anyone ever having a sidewall problem. I think you just have sharper rox out there Andy!

Brian