Mods for robotic VX

[megadan]

I don't want to sound like a downer, but your choice of vehicle for the DGC is largely irrelevant. It's not an off-road vehicle problem - it's a computer vision and mapping problem. I know, I was a software engineer on one of the original teams and spoke AT LENGTH to the DARPA people during the kick-off meeting at the Peterson Museum here in LA. We built a vehicle with dynamics that would pop the front windshield out of a VX at speed, so I am quite familiar with the development tree. And out weak point was software, not the "airframe."

80% of the 2nd gen teams out there thing they can solve this comp with a super off-road machine. What you need is some super software engineers in the areas of digital vision, path planning, fast control systems, etc. As a basic litmus test, if you can pretty much ignore GPS positioning in your Kalman filter, then you have a shot at getting into the course. (If you don't know what a Kalman is, then don't start cutting up your VX!)

Email me if you want, dan.danknick@gmail.com

Dan

PS: If you're just doing this for fun and don't have any serious intent of doing well, then ignore all of this and enjoy the ride!

[Maugan_VX]

How is a digital camera supposed to tell the difference between good traction and no traction?

I understand that it can identify obstacles, but sometimes you need all 4 wheels delivering power at once.

And if they wanted the ultimate offroad vehicle, I don't think they would have picked a VX.

[mbeach]

And if they wanted the ultimate offroad vehicle, I don't think they would have picked a VX.

I'm afraid that I'd have to agree here. While the VX is capable enough, I really hate to see one getting cut up for this challenge. Why not a nice retired dune buggy/desert racer (think Chenowith-framed) or something? Something with a soft, flexy suspension that only weighs 2000 lbs or so. RWD with a locker would be adequate with good (flotation) tires and a light chassis.

However, I can't side with the 4WD front/rear locker concept. While super-cool, it is also super-expensive, and super-complicated. A problem remains a problem, regardless of how much money you throw at it. While it's nice to dream, the reality of the situation is this: If the vehicle has troubles, it's going to be 95% software/vision related.

The last thing that I'd like to see is an uber-expensive modified VX frantically spinning it's tires at the bottom of a gully that it drove itself into.

[Jorge]

I really hate to see one getting cut up for this challenge.
...
Why not a nice retired dune buggy/desert racer?

Hello mbeach:

As a car enthusiast, I agree with your comments. I hate to see any car cut up for any reason. After having owned our VehiCROSS "robot" for the past 2 months, I want to buy another one just for myself :-) One of our self-imposed criteria is to "show respect" for our VehiCROSS. We are saving and carefully labeling every nut and bolt and piece of trim we remove from the car. After the race is over, our goal is to be able to assemble the VehiCROSS back to as close to mint condition as possible.

As far as using a retired dune buggy, you are right. The crux of the matter is software, machine vision, and control theory. We could conceivably strap our cameras and vision algorithms to a beat up Ford pickup and do just as well as with our VehiCROSS. Did you ever see the movie "Back to the Future"? In this movie Marty asks Doc why he used a DeLorean? To which Doc replies: "--If you're going to build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?" I think the same applies to us :-) If you are going to go through the immense trouble of building a robotic car, why not use a head-turning bad-*** looking little SUV like the VehiCROSS? We are very happy with our choice... and we are doing our best to show it the respect it deserves :-)

Jorge

[jim.LR>AR]

amen style is everthing.....

[Heraclid]

As far as using a retired dune buggy, you are right. The crux of the matter is software, machine vision, and control theory. We could conceivably strap our cameras and vision algorithms to a beat up Ford pickup and do just as well as with our VehiCROSS. Did you ever see the movie "Back to the Future"? In this movie Marty asks Doc why he used a DeLorean? To which Doc replies: "--If you're going to build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?" I think the same applies to us :-) If you are going to go through the immense trouble of building a robotic car, why not use a head-turning bad-*** looking little SUV like the VehiCROSS? We are very happy with our choice... and we are doing our best to show it the respect it deserves :-)

I'm wiping a tear from my eye. That was beautiful. YOU GUYS ROCK! :-)

[Swordy]

01001001 00100000 01100001 01100111 01110010 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01000100 01101111 01100011 00101110 00100000 01000110 01110101 01101110 01100011 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 00101011 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 01101101 00100000 00111101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01110100 00101110 00100000 00100000 00111010 00101001

Amen

[mbeach]

One of our self-imposed criteria is to "show respect" for our VehiCROSS. After the race is over, our goal is to be able to assemble the VehiCROSS back to as close to mint condition as possible.

"--If you're going to build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?" I think the same applies to us :-) If you are going to go through the immense trouble of building a robotic car, why not use a head-turning bad-*** looking little SUV like the VehiCROSS? We are very happy with our choice... and we are doing our best to show it the respect it deserves :-)

That's good enough for me!

I was reviewing the results of the DGC last year (just to see exactly what obstacles the racers would be faced with), there were some pretty neat concepts out there. I wanted to find out what the failures were on some of the top vehicles. Is there a 'list' of this information available to you?

[Art]

I don't want to sound like a downer, but your choice of vehicle for the DGC is largely irrelevant. It's not an off-road vehicle problem - it's a computer vision and mapping problem. I know, I was a software engineer on one of the original teams and spoke AT LENGTH to the DARPA people during the kick-off meeting at the Peterson Museum here in LA. We built a vehicle with dynamics that would pop the front windshield out of a VX at speed, so I am quite familiar with the development tree. And out weak point was software, not the "airframe."

80% of the 2nd gen teams out there thing they can solve this comp with a super off-road machine. What you need is some super software engineers in the areas of digital vision, path planning, fast control systems, etc. As a basic litmus test, if you can pretty much ignore GPS positioning in your Kalman filter, then you have a shot at getting into the course. (If you don't know what a Kalman is, then don't start cutting up your VX!)

Email me if you want, dan.danknick@gmail.com

Dan

PS: If you're just doing this for fun and don't have any serious intent of doing well, then ignore all of this and enjoy the ride!

As a programmer for over 25 years, I agree with your assessment. We have other programmers on the team also. We are doing this for fun *and* intend to do well... meet our team here:

http://www.austinrobot.com/team

[Heraclid]

I'm excited about this whole thing and I have a pretty good feeling about this. Especially when the bottom of their webpage says this:

"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." -- Chinese Proverb

[Jorge]

Hello vehicross.info members:

My brother Art told me about this excellent website! Thanks to all the site members for their invaluable advice and support! Our robotic VehiCROSS can already drive autonomously, following a series of predefined waypoints. This is definitely going to be a fun ride!

Jorge

[Jorge]

It's not an off-road vehicle problem - it's a computer vision and mapping problem.
...
if you can pretty much ignore GPS positioning in your Kalman filter...

Hello megadan:

Your comments show you are well-versed in the fields of robotics and engineering. Yes, we do have engineers on our team who know control theory and yes we will have a Kalman filter. Thanks for the pointers! I'd love to hear more about your experiences in the previous Grand Challenge.

Jorge