Poll: What is the antithesis of the VX?

[nocturnalVX]

The perfect antithesis for the VX probably needs to be...

relatively common
fuel-efficient
very plain-looking
fragile and horrible for off-road use
a car (or car-based/unibody)
a poor-handling vehicle
generally not fun to drive

Can you say minivan? I knew you could! They may be truck-based, but otherwise they fit. No-fun, practical, dime-a-dozen vehicles that (even if they came AWD) would not fare well in Moab.

[thebear54]

I voted earlier for the KIA Rio(vote still stands) but...has anyone ever heard of a DAF Daffodil? 2 cylinder, 30 horsepower, 0-60 in (I'll let you do the math , 2 door, automatic/variomatic transmission. I have one: . Luckily it will be only a show car when I get finished, not a daily driver.
John

[Heraclid]

Can you say minivan? I knew you could! They may be truck-based, but otherwise they fit. No-fun, practical, dime-a-dozen vehicles that (even if they came AWD) would not fare well in Moab.

There are several car-based minivans out there. In fact, are there any that aren't? I can't think of one. The Toyota Sienna and Lexus RX300 ride on extended Camry platforms. The Toyota Highlander is basically a larger RX300 underneath the sheetmetal, so the minivan/SUV gene pool starts getting muddy. The Honda Pilot is based on the Odyssey, and the Odyssey rides on an extended Accord platform, etc. etc.

I think if I had to pick a minivan to pick on right now, I'd go with the Ford Freestyle because it's a very half-hearted attempt to sell what is still a Windstar.

Picking a good antithesis for the VX is very subjective. Do you pick something as totally different from a VX in as many ways as possible? Or something similar (or masquerading as similar) that is 180 degrees opposite in philosophy and just aimed in another direction entirely?

A good antithesis for the VX may be something along the lines of a Buick Rendezvous. The Rendezvous is an attempt to merge the minivan with the SUV, and it is basically for people who need a minivan but hate minivans. The MDX and Pilot borrow some from the Odyssey and so on, but the Rendezvous probably has more parts lifted directly from minivans than any other wannabe SUV. Word is that they handle horribly, with lots of body roll, have no road feel, and lots of understeer. The interior materials are lackluster and the seats aren't comfortable. The leather you can get in it as an option is low-grade. It is at best a very average pseudo-SUV, and in this age of crossover cute-utes, it's a bit of an ugly duckling. It is a blood-brother to the Pontiac Aztek, which doesn't help it any. You expect a certain something in a Buick and it falls short, whereas the VX exceeded expectations. You can get it in AWD, but that's not quite the same as 4WD, and it's not even fit for light off-road duty. I think there's a huge contrast in just the image between Buicks and Isuzus, too. Buicks conjure up Park Avenues, Regals... luxury cars that float down the road and are driven pretty much by old folks. Think Isuzu and you think of Amigo, Rodeo, Trooper, VehiCROSS. Rugged vehicles for active people who are young at heart. Very different.

[Raque Thomas]

I don't think the Rendezvouz or its sibling the Aztec was ever meant to pretend to be an off-road vehicle. I think like the Volvos and such, it was marketed to be a capable on road vehicle for rain, snow and other adverse road conditions. Of course, that's the marketing hype. It is really another vehicle they thought they could get the yuppie crowd interested in. The ones (as you mentioned) that need a minivan, but consider themselves too young or "hip" to drive a minivan. Unfortunately, the execution fell a little short. At first glance, a decked out Rendezvouz doesn't look too bad - but the more you look, the worse it looks. Poor quality, poor design, poor materials, etc, etc, etc. GM has been very guilty over the years of building some vehicles of questionable design and cosmetic quality - kind of reminds me of the boat or RV industry, when you see a boat that looks pretty sharp, but you start really looking closely, you see all the short cuts they took and how poor the real quality is.

Now please don't think I'm liking the looks of the Rendezvous - NOT - just saying that it was not intended or marketed to be an off-road vehicle. And - I think it's stable mate, the Aztec is the ugliest vehicle on the planet - AND they sold a HELL of a lot more of them than the VX!!!!!

Actually, the ex came home with a new Rendezvouz after totalling the Escalade a few years ago and wanted me to buy it. It looked pretty good at first, but like I said, the more I looked, the less I liked it. The price was ridiculous in my mind at over $30k! Remember the Lumina APV and siblings? That's what it reminded me of. I'm rambling here, but if you've ever driven one of those (Lumina APV, etc first generation) the steering wheel is off-center to the left, it is a VERY odd feeling to drive one!

[Heraclid]

I don't think I disagree with any of what you said. But here's what I said:

Picking a good antithesis for the VX is very subjective. Do you pick something as totally different from a VX in as many ways as possible? Or something similar (or masquerading as similar) that is 180 degrees opposite in philosophy and just aimed in another direction entirely?

This gets to what I was trying to say about how subjective this is. The first set of criteria would lead to something that in almost every imaginable way is opposite a VX, and you could end up with a Geo Metro or whatever. I consider the Rendezvous to fit the second set of criteria, where you have something roughly the same (it's supposedly a SUV), but the ideas and goals behind it are totally counter to everything the VX represents. I don't think anyone would peg a Buick to be a serious off-road vehicle. But I still think it is a classic case of something trying to have a little bit of appeal to a lot of people rather than settling on one thing and doing it well (a lot of appeal to fewer people). So it ends up being very average.

The Rendezvous is not a true four-wheel drive, but it is available in all-wheel drive. Buick's own website touts the Rendezvous's "On-Demand All-Wheel Drive" system, which sounds suspiciously like our own Torque-On-Demand setup, but in reality is a bit different. The VX system is full-time, distributes power to the wheels that need it, and has selectable high or low range gearing. The Rendezvous system is full-time, distributes power to the wheels that need it, and is without a low range gearing option.

I didn't used to know what the difference was between AWD and 4WD. I suspect that some people may actually get a Rendezvous and believe it is the equivalent of 4WD and think they can go wherever with it. Yes, it would take totally overlooking the minimal ground clearance and other signs that it isn't meant to do it, but I think we all know there are some people clueless enough.

AWD systems are lighter, but they lack the low range gearing of 4WD. AWD is full-time. 4WD may or may not be. Many regular SUV's and pickups still have selectable part-time 4WD, although many newer 4WD's are full-time. AWD is good for snow and dirt roads. But if it has big rocks, deep sand, or steep inclines, you still need 4WD.

[Raque Thomas]

Heraclid - I think we agree on this - that vehicle is one that trys to appeal to a broad range of people without doing anything particularly well. I personally like being different, and the VX suits my personal style well. As far as what I think the true opposite of the VX is, I guess it would have to be something like the Chevrolet Lumina - nondescript, MASSproduced, and very generic. These 3 terms could not be applied to the VX;which is very descript, VERY limited production, and very unique.

[TEN36VX]

Not to revive an old thread, but I just had to cast my vote...

Scion xB
Drivetype: Front Wheel Drive
Engine: DOHC 16-valve VVT-i 4-cylinder
Suspension: Front: Independent strut with stabilizer bar
Rear: Torsion beam with stabilizer bar
Ground Clearance: 6.1"
Tires: 185/60 R15


I just hate even looking at those things!

[mdwyer]

VERY limited production, and very unique.

Yeah, the rarity of these vehicles didn't really occur to me until I saw an article about the De Lorean DMC-12 -- otherwise known as "That car from Back to the Future".

According to Wikipedia: "About nine thousand DMC-12s were made before production stopped in late 1982."

Wikipedia also says that there are only 4,153 Vehicrosses.

I just think, "I drive a car that's more rare than a De Lorean. Wow. How cool is that?!"

Of course, on the other side of the coin, I've only seen one De Lorean in my lifetime -- and that at a car show -- but I've seen at least four VX in my lifetime. I imagine it has something to do with the fact that we actually get to take our "rare cars" out on the road!