Give War A Chance...

[Tone]

Trying to help - by Dennis Miller

All the rhetoric on whether or not we should go to war against Iraq has got my insane little brain spinning like a roulette wheel. I enjoy reading opinions from both sides but I have detected a hint of confusion from some of you.
As I was reading the paper recently, I was reminded of the best advice someone ever gave me. He told me about the KISS method (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) so, with this as a theme, I'd like to apply this theory for those who don't quite get it. My hope is that we can simplify things a bit and recognize a few important facts.

Here are 10 things to consider when voicing an opinion on this important issue:

1) Between President Bush and Saddam Hussein ... Hussein is the bad guy.

2) If you have faith in the United Nations to do the right thing keep this in mind, they have Libya heading the committee on human rights and Iraq heading the global disarmament committee. Do your own math here.

3) If you use Google search and type in "French military victories," your reply will be "did you mean French military defeats?"

4) If your only anti-war slogan is "no war for oil," sue your school district for allowing you to slip through the cracks and robbing you of the education you deserve.

5) Saddam and Bin Laden will not seek United Nations approval before they try to kill us.

6) Despite common belief, Martin Sheen is not the President. He plays one on T.V.

7) Even if you are anti-war, you are still an "infidel!" and Bin Laden wants you dead, too.

8) If you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy" but not in the danger that Hussein poses, quit hanging out with the Dell computer dude.

9) We are not trying to liberate them.

10) Whether you are for military action or against it, our young men and women overseas are fighting for us to defend our right to speak out. We all need to support them without reservation.

I hope this helps.

Dennis Miller --

[VX4EJR]

Dennis Miller is a sharp and humorous guy.....good post Tone.

I agree SPAZZ, this anti-war protesting going on in our country and the images I see on TV are silly, stupid, redundant and pointless.
Fine, you're an American and have the right to speak your mind but to bash the very thing that gives you that right and to gather in huge groups, disturbing the peace and creating violent confrontations is not the way or message I'm sure you want to send. These people forget 9/11 and the terrorist attitude to kill. You can't just say...why can't we all just get along.

It's upsetting to see so many opposed to this war and their displays.

[VX4EJR]

Hey SPAZZ.....I found one and just tried what you said. Funny, I ended up knockin him to the ground. So then I said, "see.....now you stopped what you were doing and shut up. It takes a few punches and that's what the goal is overseas ya ignorant fool. Now gimme 50 bucks and scram."

[WyrreJ]

Then next week his psychopathic brother comes back and shoots you, your family and all your neighbors while everybody is asleep. Just because you you are stronger than him doesn't mean you are invulnerable.

There are TONS of retired military who are against this war, don't try to paint the opposition with the wide brush of the pacifist straw man.

A lot of people oppose this war because they expect it to INCREASE the danger of terrorism to the US peoples, not decrease it. They worry that this kind of action will galvanize those who are on the fence into complete distrust of the US, and those who have grudges against us into action. And we need all the friends we can get right now, standing alone just because we have the biggest stick in the world is not a viable long-term position. The problem with having the biggest stick in the world is that it means we also have the most inertia - thus quick, agile and smart opponents may easily avoid the stick. Bush has lots of techno weapons in the military and is suffering from the, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" syndrome. He needs to take a cue on foreign policy from someone like Woodrow Wilson instead of someone who quotes Al Capone as justification for our current foreign policy.

Here's a letter and a list of over one hundred retired and ex- military who feel this war is not the best way to go about defending our country:

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.or...President2.htm

PS - if you believe the rhetoric from the fat cats in washington about supporting our troops, you have to wonder why they are proposing cutting $25B from the VA over the next 10 years and ~$200M from the Impact Aid program, which among other things, pays for the education of the children of people in the service?

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/print.asp?id=563

Ultimately my point here is that this war is way to complex for simple jingoistic rhetoric to even come close to dealing with the the gravity of the situation, for all involved.

[TimG]

Originally posted by WyrreJ

A lot of people oppose this war because they expect it to INCREASE the danger of terrorism to the US peoples, not decrease it.


Fear of terrorism is not a valid reason to do or not do anything.


Ultimately my point here is that this war is way to complex for simple jingoistic rhetoric to even come close to dealing with the the gravity of the situation, for all involved.


Very well put.

Personnaly, I still don't have enough information to form an educated opinion. All I do know is that there are so many conflicting reports, that I don't know what to believe.

It doesn't matter much anyway whether I want us to go to war or not. The fact is we are at war, and it's not going to stop until Sadam is out of power, or more likely, until he is dead.

If our goal is to get Sadam and his sons out of power, then it might have been better to just assassinate them. It would save us the cost of rebuilding what we destroy.
Yeah, yeah. I know we don't have assassins. Whatever.

I imagine that our goal is a little more than just getting Sadam out of power. We'll probably end up installing a democratic government there when we are through. Hopefully the new Iraq will become as stable as Germany or Japan did after we were done with them.

I do hope that the war goes quickly for everyone's sake, with a minimum of civilian deaths.

For those of you who haven't seen it yet, here is a bit of interesting reading straight from baghdad.
http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/

[webdog]

When the battles are over and Saddam and his ilks are removed from power, the world will judge us by the way we treat the people of Iraq and by the stories the Iraqi people tell.

By the way......

Join the "Boycott France " Campaign.

Please review this list of major French companies that
Americans should boycott.

Millions of Americans are joining the Boycott France
campaign led by NewsMax.com

Please forward this email to as many friends and
family as possible.

If everyone who gets this list from NewsMax would send it to
just two friends, within 10 days more than 100 million people
will be contacted!

Again, please review the email below, print it out, copy it,
and share it with your friends and family.

NewsMax.com, America's news page, is taking the lead. NewsMax
unabashedly stands for America and American values.

Check out NewsMax's recent ad urging a boycott and join our
campaign, click here now:

http://www.newsmaxstore.com/a/france150

http://www.newsmaxstore.com/a/france150 ">
AOL Users Click Here

NewsMax.com is leading the Boycott France campaign because
American lives and security is at stake.

France has every right to disagree with America. But
France has moved from simple dissent to active hostility
toward America.

French President Chirac warned East European nations that
if they side with America, France will oppose their
membership in the European Union.

This week, William Safire reported in the New York Times
that France has been secretly helping to arm Iraq -- and
has been helping Iraq build long range missiles. These
same missiles may soon be used against American soldiers.

Just as France is exercising its right to disagree,
Americans can exercise their right to boycott -- and avoid
helping companies and countries that do no stand with America.

French Products and Companies to Boycott

The following companies are subject to boycott:

* Air France. Air Liquide. Airbus. Alcatel. Allegra (allergy
medication). Aqualung (including: Spirotechnique, Technisub,
US Divers, and SeaQuest). AXA Advisors

* Bank of the West (owned by BNP Paribas). Beneteau (boats).
BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin). BIC (razors, pens and lighters).
Biotherm (cosmetics). Black Bush. Bollinger (champagne).

* Car & Driver Magazine. Cartier. Chanel. Chivas Regal (scotch).
Christian Dior. Club Med (vacations). Culligan (owned by Vivendi).

* Dannon (yogurt and dairy foods). DKNY. Dom Perignon.
Durand Crystal

* Elle Magazine. Essilor Optical Products. Evian.

* Fina gas stations and Fina Oil (billions invested in
Iraqi oil fields). First Hawaiian Bank.

* George Magazine. Givenchy. Glenlivet (scotch).

* Hennessy. Houghton Mifflin (books). Jacobs Creek (owned by
Pernod Ricard since 1989). Jameson (whiskey).
Jerry Springer (talk show)

* Krups (coffee and cappuccino makers).

* Lancome. Le Creuset (cookware). L'Oreal (health and beauty
products). Louis Vuitton.

* Marie Claire. Martel Cognac. Maybelline. Méphisto (shoes
and clothes). Michelin (tires and auto parts). Mikasa (crystal
and glass). Moet (champagne). Motel 6. Motown Records. MP3.com.
Mumms (champagne).

* Nissan (cars; majority owned by Renault). Nivea.
Normany Butter.

* Parents Magazine. Peugeot (automobiles). Pierre Cardin.
Playstation Magazine. ProScan (owned by Thomson Electronics,
France). Publicis Group (including Saatchi & Saatchi
Advertising).

* RCA (televisions and electronics; owned by Thomson Electronics).
Red Magazine. Red Roof Inns (owned by Accor group in France).
Renault (automobiles). Road & Track Magazine. Roquefort cheese
(all Roquefort cheese is made in France). Rowenta (toasters,
irons, coffee makers, etc.). Royal Canadian.

* Salomon (skis). Sierra Software and Computer Games. Smart &
Final. Sofitel (hotels, owned by Accor). Sparkletts (water,
owned by Danone). Spencer Gifts. Sundance Channel.

* Taylor Made (golf). Technicolor. T-Fal (kitchenware). Total
gas stations.

* UbiSoft (computer games). Uniroyal. Universal Studios (music,
movies and amusement parks; owned by Vivendi-Universal). USFilter.

* Veritas Group. Veuve Clicquot Champagne. Vittel. Vivendi.

* Wild Turkey (bourbon). Woman's Day Magazine.

* Yoplait (The French company Sodiaal owns a 50 percent stake).
Yves Saint Laurent.

* Zodiac Inflatable Boats.