National ID Cards - Coming Soon to Your Wallet

[mbeach]

- the possibilities are limitless.

Exactly.

[transio]

Exactly.

So we should eliminate any technology that could potentially be used to infringe on our freedoms or harm us? Ok, then add to your list the Internet, computers, telephones, airplanes, automobiles, gasoline, nuclear power, medical research, SSNs, driver's licenses, cameras, and weapons. Scrap 'em all. Weapons are the one thing on that list that don't have a single beneficial use in society. Ironically, it's people who cry about freedom infringement who fight the fiercest for the maintenance of weapons in society "to protect themselves". The bottom line is that if a technology is more beneficial than detrimental to society then it's worth considering implementation of it.

[Mr. I-MAN]

WyrreJ

Go to Canada I'm sure they don't have those kind of cards there, and you can hang out with the rest of the ex-pats, draft dodgers and criminals who found the American system just too hard to deal with. Hell they love your kind up there.

[Moncha]

[Tone]

Dang, I finally agree completely with I-Man! Lots of complaining in the USA but try going ANY PLACE ELSE and report back how you like it.

[TYGVR]

Why didn't they put a gps chip (or give them a choice to) in everyone who is working in the war regions overseas. That way if they are kidnapped they can find them sooner. With the last years episodes of kidnaping I think everyone would like to be tracked. Kinda like "Snake Pliskin".

[mbeach]

Go to Canada I'm sure they don't have those kind of cards there, and you can hang out with the rest of the ex-pats, draft dodgers and criminals who found the American system just too hard to deal with. Hell they love your kind up there.

It was kinda funny until we got here.

I was a Paratrooper in the Army for 11 years.
I have served as a consultant for a defense contractor, and I've worked for the Dept. of Homeland Security.
I have also guarded some of our nations most secret technology at a Government research facility.

I have sweat blood and watched some of the finest men I'll ever know, die in service to this land (and you, who have never served anything greater than a dinner, armchair Generals). So if I want to criticize our (my) government's use/misuse of technology, then by God I will. I have earned it.

This bill, if approved and implemented, rubs even my strict conservative fur the wrong way. If it doesn't set off some mental alarm, than you're just not paying attention.

[transio]

Why didn't they put a gps chip (or give them a choice to) in everyone who is working in the war regions overseas. That way if they are kidnapped they can find them sooner.

Brilliant idea!

[mbeach]

...except that a GPS antenna would also have to be implanted, as well as a power source.

I do love the "Escape from ________" movies though

[kpaske]

I generally consider myself to be a privacy advocate. I believe the right to privacy is one of our hard earned rights as American citizens, and I don't like the idea of giving up any of my freedom. On the other hand, I do agree with Tone and the others who've said that those who have nothing to hide have little to lose by these types of technologies.

The new bill, as I understand it, is not exactly a national ID card --- it standardizes some of the features of state ID cards so that they can be universally recognized. The only thing that is really being added for sure is a national ID number (the equivalent of a SSN), a universal electronic scanning method (mag strip or possibly RFID) and possibly a biometric like a fingerprint.

The electronic scanning is what I think bothers so many people because it makes it easy to collect data on individuals easily and electronically. I do object to the idea of RFID scanning because that gives people the ability to collect your information without you knowing. This is a BIG deal. The idea of a mag strip or bar code or other electronic scanability does have some potential privacy consequences because it allows others to easily collect and store your information. Of course, laws could be written to prevent certain people from collecting or storing certain information, which would probably be a good idea, but this is unlikely to happen because that's how the government would track the criminals.

I think a lot of people are making jumps that don't need to be made right now, but maybe some of these things are inevitable. Once the technology is there and accepted by the public, it makes it so much easier to move into all these other technologies that would violate our precious privacy.

[WyrreJ]

On the other hand, I do agree with Tone and the others who've said that those who have nothing to hide have little to lose by these types of technologies.

The problem with this attitude is that we really have little to gain and lots to lose. So far, every single benefit that has been posited as coming from a national ID system is either out and out false - they can only decrease security from terrorists and make things easier for illegal immigrants - or are something that should be left to the private sector.

Meanwhile, these kinds of systems open up plenty of potential for abuse and if you think they won't be abused you just don't understand the nature of man. Criminals, both inside and outside the government will abuse the system, it is not a question of if, it is a question of when and in what new and clever ways they will do it.

Way too many people in this thread are confusing patriotism with authoritarianism. At the root, this system is about bigger government for the autocrats in washington and less freedom for lawful citizens. It won't make you any safer, but it will cost you in taxes and it will make you less of a free man.

Go to Canada I'm sure they don't have those kind of cards there, and you can hang out with the rest of the ex-pats, draft dodgers and criminals who found the American system just too hard to deal with. Hell they love your kind up there.

I-Man - I can do the reactionary knee-jerk response 10x better than you: How about instead YOU go to North Korea where they ALREADY have these kinds of cards along with no freedom to travel, freedom of speech or really much of any freedom at all. Hell, sounds like you and tone would love it there. Leave America to those who know what it means to be an American.

[Panther_Black_VX]

Way too many people in this thread are confusing patriotism with authoritarianism. At the root, this system is about bigger government for the autocrats in washington and less freedom for lawful citizens. It won't make you any safer, but it will cost you in taxes and it will make you less of a free man.

The key words here are, "It won't make you any safer". It sincerely won't. I am interestingly indifferent about the cards. The problems we face will not be affected in any substaintial way, let alone be solved, by this national card. The problems, and solutions therein, are much more complicated and start with external and not internal, policies. But that's another thread. However, if the government want to give it the good ole college try, they can be my guest. Tell me where to sign.

My question is what historical examples indicate that this solution works? I'm not sure there are any, that do not entail some significant reduction or curtailing of human rights. What ever you may consider those to be. So is this the way to go?

However we must look at it from the perspective that the govermnet is trying to protect its citizens and NOT trying to affect some deeply rooted change in our way of life for neferious reasons. No matter how misguided we think the direction is.

Ah yes, thus is the delima of an empire. It expands, engulfs, embraces and assilimates so much of the people and cultures in the world during its reign, that is begins to struggle not to lose the very indentity it 'thinks' it had and not what is really and always was.. But I digress......

The logistical headache is enough not to embark on this plan. And that implanting of the chip in our skin, just creeps me out..

“And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” (Revelation 13:16–18)

And I'm not even a Christian!!

[crager34]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2005, senators voted -- unanimously, with no discussion, and without even reading the bill -- to create a national ID card.

[Mr. I-MAN]

You guys right.


I guess in my 8 1/2 years in Marine Corps

3 1/2 - enlisted(Non Com) 5 - Commissioned
&
3.5 years gov't contracted to put in GPS E911 system for this country.

I havent learned difference between freedom, The 50 states and my TAINT!

[transio]

Oh, the drama. This could be a made-for-TV movie.