Engine work - fix or forget it?

[Groovium]

Greetings, everyone!

Any hesitation I might have had about jumping into the VX corral is waning in the face of this active community! You folks roque! Would you all be so kind as to wax eloquent on this:

I've read about dead engines here and I'm checking out gofather's machine [listed in the For Sale forum] today on the way home from San Francisco ("Quake! Quaaake!!!" ;-) He tells me it needs a new crank. Would it be worth it to buy his VX and put a new(ish) engine in it, or should I flee in terror and look for another one?

peace,

[Joe_Black]

The best thing is to simply explore the four options you have on a path to VX parenting:

1: Determine a realistic cost to rebuild the existing engine with the bad crank from a reputable shop that will warranty their work.

2: Determine a realistic cost to acquire a crate engine and have swapped using a reputable shop that will warranty their work.

3: Determine a realistic cost and amount of time to do either of the above yourself if you're appropriately experienced.

4: Weigh the answers to the above against the cost of acquiring another VX with no problems and a solid service history, preferably with factory warranty remaining on the drivetrain.

Only with information can you make an informed decision.

[SPAZZ]

if you want to stick with gasoline, your best bet would be to gut the VX and rig it the same way as the 2004 Axiom Direct injection. You would get almost 30MPG even when in 4WD your mileage would be like 20MPG

[Joe_Black]

The Axiom Direct Injection doesn't get that kind of economy. It does have more power and torque, but only gets about 20% better mileage than the VX's 6VE1. But if you can swing a deal on one it's definitely an upgrade, just remember the ECU is different as well as some harness connections. So you'll need more than just the engine. Also, it may not talk to the VX's TOD unit the same way as the Axiom has a different TOD set-up.

We just got our '04 Axiom on Saturday, so haven't had any time to really tinker with it.

If you want real fuel economy and serious torque then look into putting an Isuzu turbo-diesel in. Very little in the way of electronics and you can run anything from Sam's vegetable oil to regular pump diesel in it.

[SPAZZ]

like I said...if you wanted to stick with gasoline...gut it...and go with the direct injection. And yes, I have heard from alot of owners with 2004 Axiom's with direct Injection getting like 30 MPG.

Just like some VX owners claim to get 20MPG which I find hard to belive cause mine gets at best 13MPG.


My choice would be a 4BD Diesel with a 4L80E with close to 40MPG and way more than enough torque.

[JAFO]

4: Weigh the answers to the above against the cost of acquiring another VX with no problems and a solid service history, preferably with factory warranty remaining on the drivetrain.)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I just wanted to add that unless you are a direct familiy member of the original vehicle the factory warranty is cut in half for the second owner.

I think my 2000 had the 10 years 100,000 mile warranty, and it was cut to 5 years 50,000 when I purchased it from the original owner.

[Joe_Black]

The basic drivetrain warranty is 5 years or 60,000 miles regardless of ownership, so goes with the vehicle from owner to owner until either time or mileage limits are met.

The 10 year 120,000 mile warranty was available only to the original purchaser and transferable only to immediate family members, and was more of bumper-to-bumper type deal. If interested I'll dig out my original paperwork from the Dragon for additional info.

Just like some VX owners claim to get 20MPG which I find hard to belive cause mine gets at best 13MPG.

My choice would be a 4BD Diesel with a 4L80E with close to 40MPG and way more than enough torque.

Our '99 Iron Man with over 120,000 miles will get 20 - 21 MPG on highway, while the '01 Dragon tags about 18 - 19 tops. There are a lot of factors involved with mileage, not to mention just variance inherit in mass production. You run a lift and oversize tires, right? It's a no-brainer your economy would suffer. And if you Line-X'd your cladding then you've practically introduced the aerodynamic equivalent of a drogue chute. But then again your focus is off-roading, not highway economy. Everything's a trade off.

As for the 4BD2 diesel, you'd be lucky to get in the high 20's for mileage. The correct drop-in diesel is the 4JG2, although the 4BD2 would work with some fitting. The real benefit to using the diesel is bio-diesel, which anyone can make in their garage. With average cost to produce at less than $1 a gallon and the environmental benefits it's a compelling reason to convert.

All too many people are making wild claims about diesel having incredible mileage. It simply isn't true and the facts are all too easy to obtain. But when fuel prices skyrocket sensationalism ultimately takes hold, and it'll only be a matter of time before our generation's "100 MPG carburetor" appears with the power of the internet propelling it into legend status.

[psychos2]

If you can get it for the right price and fix it for the right price then go for it. I would replace the motor rather than rebuild. shawn

[Chopper]

Around here,the straight engine swap, with a good donor(used) engine of the same type is about 3000 or 4000 dollars. Plus about 1800 if you decide to do a rebuild on the engine before you drop it in. There are a bunch of these lumps around, they found their way into all kinds of vehicles. A new one a bit more yet. By the way, I regularly get 18-21mpg here in semi-rural Fla., all two lane stuff, no highway. Oh yeah... when you buy a "donor" or a rebuilt engine they do not include the accessories,alternator,compressor ect. and often not the heads...no big deal just know what you are buying. This is relatively minor surgery, and no reason not to buy an otherwise healthy vehicle.

[Groovium]

Thanks guys! (or did I miss some gals?)

Pretty impressive feedback so quick -- I *knew* I'd like hanging out here! I looked at gofather's VX today and I like it -- a thoroughly enjoyed 4x4, knicks, dings and stories, but it all seems there. And I was thinking about a diesel going into all this -- veddy buzzword-compliant and thriftier, too. Has anyone tried this, and what should I expect in the way of procedure? Joe, could you tell more about the 4JG2?

[mbeach]

You're in California -you are lucky to be able to fit an aftermarket air filter without arousing the law.
I'd give up on engine swaps outside of the 6Vxx family. Even the DI engine will be a CARB challenge.

I heard that Mercedes-Benz invented a 100 mpg carbureator during the 70s, but the entire engineering team was kidnapped while vacationing in the Middle East.
Any thoughts Joe?

[Joe_Black]

Once I sell the Dragon then the IronMan gets an intercooled 4JG2 and a 5-speed manual, so there will be a "how-to" once done. My hurdle is having more vehicles than I can focus on right now, which is why unfortunately I'm parting with the beloved Dragon. At the end of the month Merkur XR4Ti #4 comes home from GA and there's two more I'm looking at locally, plus I'm hip-deep in my Mercedes diesel project and have a 1st-gen Toyota MR2 waiting in the wings too. Not to mention my heavy-equipment collecting!

I heard that Mercedes-Benz invented a 100 mpg carbureator during the 70s, but the entire engineering team was kidnapped while vacationing in the Middle East.
Any thoughts Joe?

LOL, hadn't heard that one! Isn't that a "composite" urban-legend?

[Knigh7s]

just wondering around ebay and came across this:
US $3,799.00 6VE1

6VE1 Crate on Ebay

[Groovium]

OK: I've done some homework and here's what I've found:

1. Rebuild: US Engines in Kent WA will rebuild the 3.5L, replace the crank and ship it back, with 8-year, 80,000 mi warranty, for $3695.00.
http://www.usenginesinc.com/index.html

2. Replace: Thanks, Knigh7s! The crated, new 3.5L from Ohio runs $3799.00, including shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-I...QQcmdZViewItem

3. DYI: Ahhh...I have many talents, but ubermechanische ain't one of them. However, I know lots of excellent mechanics here in Big Sur and have a line on a shop, so though I can't do the swap myself I have access to those who can.

4. Buy Intact: I'm only getting $8500.00 from the insurance company for my late Protege, and any other monies are hypothetical until the check clears :-). That puts me out of the running for the low-mileage vehicles. I could stretch my budget, but right now I'm feeding other obsessions as well ;-) I shoulda contacted ArdmanA sooner!

It looks like I can get gofather's VX, and get it back on the road, for under $8000.00, if there's no other glitches. What do you all think?
http://www.illuminateyoursoul.com/vx/vx4sale.html

[blacksambo]

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