VX EV: Any Interest?

[Joe_Black]

I'm working on converting an MR2 to full electric and have been toying with the idea of using a 1st-gen Trooper while retaining the 4WD. With the Trooper I could fab an aluminum safari-style shade (like on Series II Land Rovers) that housed PV panels for solar recharging to augment range.

In thinking about it I realized how to do the same for the VX. It wouldn't be TOD, but full-time AWD. You could, of course, switch between RWD, FWD and AWD with the push of a button. Regen is also an available option. In the conversion you'd remove essentially the entire drivetrain and fuel system, leaving only the axles. The AC would be electrically driven and the heater core replaced with an electric unit (instant heat!). Keeping it light would give about a 50 mile range with a full charge, and performance beyond what the ICE can deliver.

In any case, I'll likely fab a set of motor brackets to satiate my curiosity. So if anyone is interested in converting their VX to full electric I'd be interested in working with you.

[transio]

What would it cost? How much could I get for my current drivetrain?

[mbeach]

An electric MR2 would be a blast to autocross -it'd be like riding in a slot car.

But a Trooper/VX? I dunno.

You want a AWD vehicle that can't go more than 50 miles from an electrical outlet?
An SUV that can't carry any additional weight -like offroading equipment?

If I were thinking about going full electric, I would start with a commuter vehicle like a Festiva or something...

[Maugan_VX]

I'd seen something about a three-wheeled vehicle somewhere (not the Peugot) and it ran on a motorcycle engine.

I was thinking that an electric version would be pretty simple to adapt.

Wish I could find the pics, the thing looked like a hot ride, with some impressive performance numbers and a 60-something MPG rating IIRC.

[Joe_Black]

You want a AWD vehicle that can't go more than 50 miles from an electrical outlet?
An SUV that can't carry any additional weight -like offroading equipment?

Admittedly you wouldn't go cross-country with it, just your normal drive which for some includes difficult terrain. Your ability to haul gear wouldn't be affected in any way. The short range is because you're only carrying 8 or 12 batteries, which will easily fit where the fuel tank was and under the hood.

People often miss the advantage of electric vehicles because they try to compare them directly to gas vehicles. Most people don't drive their tank dry every day, so an electric vehicle with a 50 mile range is more than suitable. But then the folk that may be interested get turned off to the idea because all they can find is something itty-bitty like a Honda Insight or a GEM car. Give 'em a regular SUV with AWD and serious performance then maybe you'll find a convert. The money saved alone in fuel more than makes up the additional insurance for a second vehicle if they wanted or needed to keep the gasser.

All too many people determine their needs by what other people tell them, not by taking a look at what they're really doing in their own lives. We've got a lot of forward-thinking people here that operate so far out of the envelope that there's no zip code for 'em anymore. That's why I like sharing my crazy ideas here!

[luz]

Maybe you could throw away that useless donut spare and add batteries there if you beefed up the hinges to handle the weight? It annoys me that space is such an obstruction to visibility for such little gain.

[Joe_Black]

You could easily fit plenty of batteries in existing space, and it would all be low for better center-of-gravity. You could use the engine compartment, fuel tank area and the entire driveline center tunnel as there wouldn't be a transmission, transfer case or driveshaft. More batteries equals more weight and expense, and simply isn't necessary for most people.

If you want economy, power and range then you want the Isuzu turbo-diesel conversion. Make your own fuel at home and still be environmentally friendly while flipping off the petroleum companies.

Our vision-blocking tire storage was more about form than function.

[TechnoPope]

Joe,
I have been looking to purchase an EV. I don't think I would want my VX converted to electric. Too heavy. I would suggest converting a small light pickup. A solid bed cover makes the ideal surface for solar collectors.

I want a (bio) diesel VX!

FYI: Nearly new EV Ford Rangers are now being dispersed to the public rather than crushed. There is a dealer in CA installing refurb battery packs and selling one or two a month until they are gone. There are a hand full of states where Ford will service them. They had spotty reliability but might be great for someone ready to take on the challenge.


Maugan,
Is this your three wheeler?
http://www.myersmotors.com/
These just went on sale to the public. I have driven the Myers' version and they are a blast. They were once known as the Corbin Sparrow and some were powered by v2 motorcycle engines. The new version will set you back nearly $30K so I don't think they will sell too quickly. They do, however, run on Optima batteries so replacement batteries will be readily available.

[mbeach]

There's no way on Earth that I would drive one of those Myers'.
I'd rather get poked in the eye with a dirty stick.

The only draw for electric vehicles is the instant torque. That'd be a cool feeling, and ideal for point-and-shoot autocross antics. But for every day use? C'mon. No one can actually believe that a car that plugs in to a wall socket somehow reduces our dependency on fossil fuels...

This electricity comes at an environmental cost as well -coal, oil, the atom...
Plastic solar panels, lead batteries...
Remember, if it can't be grown, it HAS to be mined.
So go big oil! (that's a joke -but seriously -I want to buy a boat).

Now diesel is something that I can get down with. You pull off a reasonable priced conversion and I'm right there behind you. Maybe not with biodiesel (my property is on a mountainside, not conducive to crop growing), but I'm all over dino-diesel.

Yesterday I passed a fleet of diesel Touregs on their way up to Prudhoe Bay. They were decked out with big aluminum roof racks and German flags -most likely doing some promotional trip to the arctic circle or something...

[Joe_Black]

Electric is way cleaner that fossil, even in considering the infrastruture to use it if on grid and the properties of the panels if off grid. The cost of conversion would take several years to recoup solely from fuel savings, but it can be done especially when you consider there's no longer an engine to maintain with consumables or a transmission and coolant system. Depending on your motor design you may have to replace brushes or bearings periodically, and the battery pack will need replacement every 3 - 6 years.

Weight isn't that much of a factor with EV's. It was up until recently (electric cars have been produced since the 1900's) but with vastly improved energy density of the newer battery technology you can get that 50 miles with about 400 - 500 pounds of battery. Add the motors and control circuitry and your net weight is less than a stock VX. Remember, we're talking about removing the ENTIRE drivetrain except axles. The fuel tank, all its lines and the entire coolant system including the heater core and radiator.

Again, this is just a mental exercise and won't appeal to everyone. Especially the average American. I'll eventually fab the brackets and probably tinker with a Trooper just to have a little fun. Especially light-to-light.

As for the biodiesel project... The engine and 5-speed will be ordered as soon as payment clears from someone providing a new home for the Dragon. Then the IronMan gets torqued!

[TEN36VX]

I like the idea, Joe.
So long as the off road performance would be equal or better.
If you could have custom panels made, it might be cool to replace the hood insert, and rear side windows (not to useful anyway) with panels. And deck the roof out. Electric would run silently too, eh? Stealthy...
I know nothing about this so here's a few questions:

How long would it take to regen the batteries from dry on solar?
Could panels be used to extend range or even run on (even if at low speed)?
Are the batteries easy to come by?
Where do you get rid of them?

I am up for anything to make our unique vehicles even more so.

[Joe_Black]

How long would it take to regen the batteries from dry on solar?
I hadn't really thought about doing PV panels on the VX, that was an idea for the Trooper conversion. You could get a respectable panel to fit the insert, but as a custom item (shape and contour) it would be pricey. Panels on the roof filling the space between the rails might be better, I just couldn't imagine plonking big square panels on the VX though. Another option many are doing is a solar charging station in their yard. This is simply a small shed or enclosure housing a battery bank that's maintained by a PV array, like a smaller version of what a solar powered home would use, and you simply plug into that for your overnight charge.

Could panels be used to extend range or even run on (even if at low speed)?
Yes on the range, as long as you're getting sun you're getting charge. You'd have to have a HUGE array to directly power the motors for something the size of a regular car. Ever see the Solar Challenge vehicles? They're spindly little creations covered entirely by cells.

Are the batteries easy to come by?
The most popular battery right now for garage conversions is the yellow and blue top Optimas, which you can get just about anywhere. A lot of places offer good quantity discounts and some are pooling their conversion projects to get group buys.

Where do you get rid of them?
Any place you'd drop off an old car battery, like AutoZone/Pep Boys type places or your local recycling center.

[Groovium]

Hi Joe!

Excellent thread --thanks very much, btw, for your earlier advice (re: "Engine trouble: fix or forget it?"). I'd have talked to you about your Dragon, but I bagged a Fox ;-)

Despite my geek credentials, I've been flummoxed by image uploads to the site, so I could just email you the quick sketches I made of a retractable solar panel. It's 40 miles from my home/shop to Monterey, so an EV SUV with charging stations at both ends could be molto groovy.