State vs aftermarket exhaust

[Icekold]

Hey WG, I wouldn't sweat it. Go ahead with that catback. I think you just ran into the wrong cop on the wrong day. I say this because in 7 years I've been pulled over a few times in My 3000GT and once in my VX which both have 20% tint that you can barely see through and not a word was said about it. I've seen (and heard) many a ricer with cops in the same general area and have never seen them pulled over for it either.

[WyrreJ]

Therefore my [conspiracy] theory is that some level of obscurity is in the laws to keep people guessing so that if a cop wants to, he can find a reason, lawful or unlawful, to pull you over/inspect you/question you, whatever he wants to.

Follow the money. It's not set up that way for the cops, they are just a piece of the machine.

Who writes laws? Lawyers. The vast majority of legislators and the lobbyist class are lawyers, although it has not always been that way.

Who makes money when there is a question of law? Lawyers - all 3 parties in court making money are lawyers - counsel for defense, counsel for plantiff and the judge. Even if the issue does not go to court, chances are at least one lawyer gets paid as part of the process - the one who gets consulted by the defendent for advice.

Such a result is the inevitable result of the way the system is set up -- its the equivalent of letting the wolves guard the hen house.

[psychos2]

If this were true, there would be no Mieneke or Midas shops in NY. It is illegal to modify from the cat forward unless theparts have an exemption number, but catback is wide open.

John C.

Hotsauce, I disagree ! My brother in law is a state trooper. They consider those mufflers to be the same as stock. Here is copy of the law:

" 31. Mufflers and exhaust systems. Prevention of noise. Every motor
vehicle, operated or driven upon the highways of the state, shall at all
times be equipped with an adequate muffler and exhaust system in
constant operation and properly maintained to prevent any excessive or
unusual noise and no such muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped
with a cut-out, bypass, or similar device. No person shall modify the
muffler or exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will
amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor or exhaust system of
such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler or exhaust system
originally installed on the vehicle and such original muffler and
exhaust system shall comply with all the requirements of this section. "

Here is a link to the Laws Of NY site : http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/me...MMONQUERY=LAWS
I think that says it all. In NY it is a no no !!! shawn

[Ldub]

In WA it is illegal to enter the intersection if it is not clear all the way through, so that left turn where you wait for the light to turn yellow is actually illegal.

Alcohol laws vary from state to state. I remember being served in a restaurant in Tennessee when I was about 10 or 12. We were drinking wine that we brought ourselves (restaurants there could not sell alcohol, but could serve it if you brought it yourself). I got drunk as heck and fell out of my chair in front of everybody.

As a youngster back in the mid seventies (18 was the legal drinking age) I was visiting friends in Montana. Much to my suprise, at closing time, if your drink wasn't finished, they gave you a to go cup & sent you on your merry way.
Another thing I noticed while traveling narrow, winding mountain roads on the same trip...there were no guard rails, just little white crosses where people (presumably to go cuppers) had gone over the edge & died.

[psychos2]

Here is a copy of the maryland law:

§ 22-402. Mufflers; prevention of noise; discharge of smoke; maximum period of idling.






(a) Mufflers.- Every motor vehicle with an internal combustion engine shall be equipped with an exhaust muffler system in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise, and no person may use a muffler cutout, bypass, or similar device on a motor vehicle on a highway. Noise levels in excess of those adopted by the Administrator under § 22-601 of this title are excessive.




(b) Prevention of noise.- A person may not use on the exhaust or "tail pipe" of a motor vehicle any extension or other device to cause excessive or unusual noise.

And here is what the administrator says:

§ 22-601. Motor vehicle operation - Establishment of sound level limits.






(a) Administrator to establish limits.- With the endorsement of the Secretary of Transportation and the Secretary of the Environment and after a public hearing following 60 days' notice, the Administrator shall adopt regulations that establish maximum sound level limits for the operation on the highways in this State of each type of motor vehicle or combination of vehicles.




(b) Scope of limits.- In establishing limits under this section, the Administrator shall:




(1) Consider any noise emission regulations established under federal law for motor carriers engaged in interstate commerce; and




(2) Set the limits at the most restrictive level that, through the application of the best available technology at a reasonable cost, is consistent with attaining the environmental noise standards adopted by the Department of the Environment.

shawn

[tbigity]

Follow the money. It's not set up that way for the cops, they are just a piece of the machine.

I agree in part. While, like I mentioned, they are part of the executive branch and not legislative (to enforce, not create the laws) they still dictate why they pull people over and I doubt the reason do so is to give some "suit" more padding in his pockets. As was my point, if a cop wants to do so, he will find something to pull you over for. As has been mentioned, could have been the wrong cop on the wrong day. Just like a cop will let a group of 5 speeders all in-tow go by him and only nab one of them...the one he thinks there is more reason to pull over. Just looking for a reason. There is a certain mentaility that goes along with being a cop that simply cannot be avoided to some extent. I cannot recount the name of the Professor of Psychology that did the experiement a few years back...studied it in my psyche class. But it took a group of students and isolated them from everything they knew and put them in a hypothetical situation where they were to role play for weeks at a time with no outside contact. Half where the prison guards (cops) and half where the inmates. Keep in mind that these were piers going in...long story short, they were straight up enemies after the study. One of the "cops" had to be taken out of the experiment because he nearly killed one of the "inmates." Keep in mind this was just roleplaying. Some of the "inmates" had to undergo therapy afterward because of the treatment they received from the "cops." The interesting thing was that the study was performed again this time the students that had played "inmates" where now the guards and anew group was brought in for the "inmates." Nearly the same result. Despite having encountered the brutality of the previous group of "guards", the new guards did not learn from the behavior, but rather, that behavior became all they knew of that roll and so, they adopted it.

The point of the study was that there are certain roles in society where the behavior is governmend more by what you think (consciously or subconsciously) that role is supposed to be and not what you want to be in that role.

However, like I previously stated:

love the work cops do and respect them.

[nfpgasmask]

You think traffic laws are enigmatic?!?! Try making clear sense out of your state's gun laws. Talk about muddy waters...

Bart

However, I almost think that some enigma is purposefully left in the law.

Therefore my [conspiracy] theory is that some level of obscurity is in the laws to keep people guessing so that if a cop wants to, he can find a reason, lawful or unlawful, to pull you over/inspect you/question you, whatever he wants to.

[WormGod]

Here is a copy of the maryland law:

§ 22-402. Mufflers; prevention of noise; discharge of smoke; maximum period of idling.

(a) Mufflers.- Every motor vehicle with an internal combustion engine shall be equipped with an exhaust muffler system in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise, and no person may use a muffler cutout, bypass, or similar device on a motor vehicle on a highway. Noise levels in excess of those adopted by the Administrator under § 22-601 of this title are excessive.

(b) Prevention of noise.- A person may not use on the exhaust or "tail pipe" of a motor vehicle any extension or other device to cause excessive or unusual noise.

And here is what the administrator says:

§ 22-601. Motor vehicle operation - Establishment of sound level limits.

(a) Administrator to establish limits.- With the endorsement of the Secretary of Transportation and the Secretary of the Environment and after a public hearing following 60 days' notice, the Administrator shall adopt regulations that establish maximum sound level limits for the operation on the highways in this State of each type of motor vehicle or combination of vehicles.

(b) Scope of limits.- In establishing limits under this section, the Administrator shall:

(1) Consider any noise emission regulations established under federal law for motor carriers engaged in interstate commerce; and

(2) Set the limits at the most restrictive level that, through the application of the best available technology at a reasonable cost, is consistent with attaining the environmental noise standards adopted by the Department of the Environment.

shawn

Ya Shawn, I saw that much, but the "excessive or unusual noise" (makes me think of BubRubb with with wizzah goes WOO WOOOO!) part is vague. It points you in the direction of another state code. And as even the 2 shops said that I went to, they figured the cop just went by a typical "local noise ordinance". But, you can see just how vague it is, especially since there was no meter present at the scene.

Last night I talked to me *cough*EX*cough* who is in a local law firm. She was going to look into it some more for me and see about even getting my inspection fee "reimbursed". I never underestimate the power of lawyers.... especially dirty ones.

As for going with the catback on the WRX, its still in the air. I did cancel my order for it, but its still something I would like to do. My WRX is FAR from a ricer and will never be one, as I have a STRONG hatred for that PepBoys circus crap. With the Cobb SS catback, the WRX sounds more like the PV thanks to the Boxer engine anyways, but with the current "exhaust" issue at hand, I want to finalise this little journey of mine first.

I AM PIONEER! MY JOURNEY SHALL MAKE A MARTYR OF ME! *we all know i will end up at the bottom of a river with concrete shoes*

[kpaske]

The interesting thing was that the study was performed again this time the students that had played "inmates" where now the guards and anew group was brought in for the "inmates." Nearly the same result. Despite having encountered the brutality of the previous group of "guards", the new guards did not learn from the behavior, but rather, that behavior became all they knew of that roll and so, they adopted it.

OR perhaps what they learned was that the system dictates (or at a minimum, encourages) a certain behavior.

[tbigity]

that was the neat thing about this...it was technically out of the system. Granted, that mentality could have been furnished by the system, but the only stimulus they had was what was going on in their heads. The only instruction they were given was "these students are guards, these are the inmates." Kinda like a "we become what we know and nothing more" thing. If nothing else it just showed the human reluctancy to change :-/

[kpaske]

I think it more likely highlights some of the natural tendencies of human beings who are placed in extremely unbalanced positions of power.

Then again, maybe they just behaved the way they thought inmates and guards were supposed to act based on previous experience (i.e. movies, tv, etc). It would be hard to eliminate this effect from the equation.

But we're getting off topic...

[WyrreJ]

Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
http://www.prisonexp.org/

When I was in 3rd grade, in public school, our teachers made us do a very similar thing. The entire grade of a couple of hundred kids in 7-8 classes was divided in half - kids who had to wear big construction paper blue collars and those who did not have to wear them. The blue collared were "bad" and the others were "good." The "bad" had to sit at their desks, be silent and do nothing as punishment for being "bad" while the good got to play games and stuff - any bad kids who did not behave got sent to "solitary." At various points in the day, the good and the bad got to interact with much more mild results than zimbardo got, but definitely along those lines.

Then after lunch break, the roles were reversed.

I remember being sent to "solitary" for just trying to find out WTF was going on.
And I remember after lunch when we switched roles and no longer had to wear a blue collar, just being so grateful that it was over that I didn't question why I was now "good" when I had been "bad" before.

Then, for the last hour or so of class, the collars came off and no one was "good" or "bad" and they had us all talk about the experience. It was probably one of the biggest, most clear-cut formative experiences of my youth. It taught me that 'authority' does not deserve respect simply for being authority and that societal or group beliefs (or prejudices) of what is "good" and "bad" are just as likely to be false as they are to be correct.

[WormGod]

So.... my EX said she can "make it go away as if it never happened". I never question lawyers and their Weirding Ways, and it sounds good to me, but I kind of relish the idea of going to court to make a stand and made my point of view heard. Although, my EX, who knows me quite damned well, said that the way I state my case (any case, to anyone, anywhere), she will be posting my bail to get me out for a Contempt ruling, heh. She is um... quite right though. Hell, I was found in contempt years ago just for fighting a traffic ticket! So ya, I should think about it.

[tbigity]

Then again, maybe they just behaved the way they thought inmates and guards were supposed to act based on previous experience (i.e. movies, tv, etc). It would be hard to eliminate this effect from the equation.

I suppose I was unclear, because that was my point. In many, MANY fewer words. Can you start writing my posts for me?

[tbigity]

wyrrej: ZIMBARDO! THANK GOD!!! I tore my psyche books to shreds trying to find that. Thank you! Though I do think that is a bit deep for 3rd graders. You must have been a step above theothers for it to have made that big of a lasting impression on you, props!

Wormgod: I totally agree. It goes beyond just getting the matter taken care of. Go for it, man...take the stand. You have come this far and bent over backwards for them, might as well get some gain out of it all