Gas Prices = $2.34?

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I am all for drilling in Alaska.

Trouble is...and somebody please correct me if I got this wrong...we already have oil in Alaska that we use something to the effect of 2% for ourselves and sell the rest to Japan and I believe possibly Germany too for a profit; while we buy a great portion from the middle-east for ourselves for a lesser amount. IF I got this right...it is the greed of our country that makes us dependent on foreign oil. "Buy for less and sell for more."

Well, BMW announced today that they'll be producing a hydrogen-powered 7-series in limited numbers with their goal of eventually being 100% hydrogen across the line. Should be interesting to watch a distribution network and an economy develop around the most plentiful thing in the universe.

As much as I would like to see us switch to a hydrogen economy....the program I watched on the history channel stated that in order to speed up the process of establishing the infrastructure and utilizing the refineries we already have...hydrogen could be produced using fossil fuels.

which means BP, EXXON, Chevron, etc...still would own our collective a$$e$.

[Joe_Black]

As much as I would like to see us switch to a hydrogen economy....the program I watched on the history channel stated that in order to speed up the process of establishing the infrastructure and utilizing the refineries we already have...hydrogen could be produced using fossil fuels.

which means BP, EXXON, Chevron, etc...still would own our collective a$$e$.

Yup, that's one of hydrogen's dark secrets most of the greeny public doesn't realize.

[tbigity]

Kobie, I hate you. We hit a new low today in T-Town...$2.23. You still beat me.

[JAFO]

Ok, so it is 2006 and we now know that the Hindenburg disaster was caused by a build up of electricity in the fabric panels. And it was solely the flammability of the panels that cause the Hindenburg to ketch on fire.
http://www.brianlynchmd.com/HINDENBURG/hindenburg2.htm

Hydrogen is lighter than air. Hydrogen will accumulate if trapped under something. For example "This New Car" podcast says that if your garage ceiling accumulates as little as 3% hydrogen, then if it gets ignited by a spark, there would be enough energy to completely destroy the house and everyone inside.
http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar.htm
Available at the iTunes Music Store for free.

"While some are concerned about hydrogen's explosiveness, Jacobson said another property of hydrogen?its lightness?may lessen this danger. He cited an example of two cars?one conventional, one hydrogen-powered?that were hit from behind. The car powered by an internal combustion engine became engulfed in flames when its gas tank was punctured. But when the hydrogen car's fuel cell was punctured, since hydrogen is 14 times lighter than air, the flames just shot straight up. The car was saved."
http://news-service.stanford.edu/new...en-071305.html

I'm curious since hydrogen is lighter than air, if the hydrogen tank is in a sealed trunk which has weather stripping and seals to keep rain out, like a typical family car. If the tank leaks before it is caught on fire? Wouldn't the hydrogen accumulate in the truck, slowly leak out into the passenger compartment through the gaps between the seats?

Second, what would the risk be, as pertains to terrorism, if we had a hydrogen refueling and storage facility on every city corner, as we now have gas stations?

I'm generally curious I have not heard these topics discussed.

[1CROSS]

What has to be done is that all these political boneheads need their expense accounts terminated for good.Let them pay for everything they want out of their own pocket just like the rest of us(gas,lunches,travel,lodging,protection,etc.).You would'nt see them driving their big limo's or flying in their jets with all the bodyguards following close by in those huge suburban's and excursions while staying at the most expensive places.That ought to be a honor to be elected into a polital office not just a free ride.A way to rape us taxpayers blind.Like my dad always says"It's CORRUPTION from the president all the way down the line".Is that the truth or not?

[Joe_Black]

Ok, so it is 2006 and we now know that the Hindenburg disaster was caused by a build up of electricity in the fabric panels. And it was solely the flammability of the panels that cause the Hindenburg to ketch on fire.
http://www.brianlynchmd.com/HINDENBURG/hindenburg2.htm

Hydrogen is lighter than air. Hydrogen will accumulate if trapped under something. For example "This New Car" podcast says that if your garage ceiling accumulates as little as 3% hydrogen, then if it gets ignited by a spark, there would be enough energy to completely destroy the house and everyone inside.
http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar.htm
Available at the iTunes Music Store for free.

"While some are concerned about hydrogen's explosiveness, Jacobson said another property of hydrogen?its lightness?may lessen this danger. He cited an example of two cars?one conventional, one hydrogen-powered?that were hit from behind. The car powered by an internal combustion engine became engulfed in flames when its gas tank was punctured. But when the hydrogen car's fuel cell was punctured, since hydrogen is 14 times lighter than air, the flames just shot straight up. The car was saved."
http://news-service.stanford.edu/new...en-071305.html

I'm curious since hydrogen is lighter than air, if the hydrogen tank is in a sealed trunk which has weather stripping and seals to keep rain out, like a typical family car. If the tank leaks before it is caught on fire? Wouldn't the hydrogen accumulate in the truck, slowly leak out into the passenger compartment through the gaps between the seats?

Second, what would the risk be, as pertains to terrorism, if we had a hydrogen refueling and storage facility on every city corner, as we now have gas stations?

I'm generally curious I have not heard these topics discussed.

Hydrogen isn't nearly so dangerous in real-world use as many opponents will lead you to believe. Yes, if you can contain a given amount in a sealed space and ignite there could be disastrous results. But like any light gas it will disperse given any opportunity, meaning that if some leaks into your garage it will find it's way out quite easily. If some did accumulate and ignite you'd see a big "poof" of brief flame as it expanded and consumed itself. (Don't ask how I know this!) For an explosion to occur from any combustible material you have to have a significant volume contained with enough restriction to burst from it's own rapid expansion after ignition.

Hydrogen has many potential benefits as a fuel, but right now it's very energy-intensive to produce. As mentioned earlier in this thread it's often produced from petroleum and uses petroleum fueled energy to make. Very much an "upside down" alternative fuel at this point until some advances are made in mass production technology.

[JAFO]

Kobie, I hate you. We hit a new low today in T-Town...$2.23. You still beat me.

The cheapest price here in McMinnville, OR is $2.89.9 for regular. That's only 66 cents more per gallon.